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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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diddymao
Joined: 29 Sep 2011
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 Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:23 am Post subject: |
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3. Your lifestyle in Korea will in many respects be inferior to the lifestyle to which you have grown accustomed in the West. Do you like clean air? In Korea, you willl be breathing polluted air. Do you like peace and quiet? Don't always count on getting it here. Do you enjoy spacious living quarters? The odds are high you will end up living like a rat in a hole.
This made me think of the poor folks in Hong Kong who pay rent to live in animal cages.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4PYC5tJbe4 |
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Udo
Joined: 22 May 2011
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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When (if) the economy or exchange rates change the situation will be 180 degrees different. I remember Feb. 1998 ESL teachers were fleeing the asian currency collapse. IMHO, the market will eventually reach an equilibrium after Koreans tire of Filipino accents.
Bottom line, Korean parents want their kids going to U.S. or Canadian post secondary schools. Yeah, there is turmoil now, but five, ten, twenty years from now the jobs will still be there. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Udo wrote: |
When (if) the economy or exchange rates change the situation will be 180 degrees different. I remember Feb. 1998 ESL teachers were fleeing the asian currency collapse. IMHO, the market will eventually reach an equilibrium after Koreans tire of Filipino accents.
Bottom line, Korean parents want their kids going to U.S. or Canadian post secondary schools. Yeah, there is turmoil now, but five, ten, twenty years from now the jobs will still be there. |
Some jobs will be there but if you pay attention to how the market has evolved since 1998 it is clear that there are a lot more qualified and talented Korean Teachers who can teach English now as opposed to 1998. No reason to think this trend will stop or change.... |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Udo wrote: |
When (if) the economy or exchange rates change the situation will be 180 degrees different. I remember Feb. 1998 ESL teachers were fleeing the asian currency collapse. IMHO, the market will eventually reach an equilibrium after Koreans tire of Filipino accents.
Bottom line, Korean parents want their kids going to U.S. or Canadian post secondary schools. Yeah, there is turmoil now, but five, ten, twenty years from now the jobs will still be there. |
Some jobs will be there but if you pay attention to how the market has evolved since 1998 it is clear that there are a lot more qualified and talented Korean Teachers who can teach English now as opposed to 1998. No reason to think this trend will stop or change.... |
The public school can get all the best non or slight accented young Korean English teachers they want. But, if the curriculum sucks, then it still sucks. If absolute consensus, union power, and old stubborn attitudes prevent change, parents will have no choice but to get around it.
English kindergardens are becoming quite popular. Look at all the advertisements on here for them. Seem to see more of those than other types of jobs. Public school teachers fight change in any form. I suggested teaching more English from Kindergarden to Grade 4, but all I got was defensiveness. Numerous studies prove learning a languange younger means more fluency and less accented speech. Once you get over the age of 10 it goes downhill from there. Kids now only get one English class a week at age 8 and 9. Practically useless. They need more not less.
If these changes were implemented, with NETS doing K to 4, alongside a Korean teacher, it would eventually reduce the need for us altogether. As for English, some newer teachers are better at English. But many a great English speaker couldn't pass the exam. Some of the ones who were able to pass the exam could only memorize but not speak English as well. I've definately worked with some teachers who still suck at English. Though, yes, there has been some improvement.
GEPIK saying "Mission Accomplished" reminds me of Bush saying the exact same thing about Iraq in 2003. A bit premature. But the 1980's generation with their anti American sentiment is rising to power.
The current system is almost cruel to the children. Their brains have become hard wired to Korean only as there is not enough education under 10 unless the parents pay for it. Therfore, it shifts the heavy lifting to Middle School. The poor kids have to study like hell and feel incredible amounts of stress. But it would be much easier if they were exposed to English when they were younger.
As it stands now, I get mixed groups. Some kids excellent at English, some not bad or so-so, and many others who are poor at English. Makes some of classes real hell and difficult to teach, especially if they are not seperated.
So, as the public school starts falterning and the US economy eventually recovers, there will be private sector (hakwon) opportunities rise up again. Wages might rise a little and the exchange rate will improve. The sun hasn't set on Korea yet. It just seems that way because of the recession hitting America so hard and flooding the market.
This temporary blip may reflect life in Korea in another 10 years or so. But, I'm still clinging to hope there will be another mini boom here, though maybe not as good as pre-2008. Let's pray hope for a US recovery soon, so our working conditions will improve once again. |
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ssuprnova
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Location: Saigon
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
The public school can get all the best non or slight accented young Korean English teachers they want. But, if the curriculum sucks, then it still sucks. If absolute consensus, union power, and old stubborn attitudes prevent change, parents will have no choice but to get around it.
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Things are definitely changing these days, but my personal experience has always been that bilingual gyopos and Koreans that speak English well opt for other career options.
| Quote: |
English kindergardens are becoming quite popular. Look at all the advertisements on here for them. Seem to see more of those than other types of jobs. |
There are two forces at work here: on the one hand, there are far fewer people wanting/willing to work with that age bracket. On the other hand, the demand for daycare/kindergarten is staggering at the moment (the "golden pig" generation: http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2011/11/117_98829.html). Many parents are unable to secure a spot at a regular daycare/kindergarten and turn to expensive English kindergartens as the only alternative. |
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hack
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| If you ever intend to return to North America, remember, your time in Korea is going to be looked at by employers the same as travel time ie: it's worth squat in NA. You did it either because you were young and wanted adventure (which is cool) or because you couldn't get employment in NA which is not cool because millions of others did. If you're a long timer, best to stay put because no one here wants you now. |
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AlastairKirby
Joined: 29 Aug 2011
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| hack wrote: |
| If you ever intend to return to North America, remember, your time in Korea is going to be looked at by employers the same as travel time ie: it's worth squat in NA. You did it either because you were young and wanted adventure (which is cool) or because you couldn't get employment in NA which is not cool because millions of others did. If you're a long timer, best to stay put because no one here wants you now. |
It might apply the US as well as the UK. But I have found the lack of employment references from the UK to be a struggle in finding a job.
The longer you are away the harder it is going to be. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| hack wrote: |
| If you ever intend to return to North America, remember, your time in Korea is going to be looked at by employers the same as travel time ie: it's worth squat in NA. You did it either because you were young and wanted adventure (which is cool) or because you couldn't get employment in NA which is not cool because millions of others did. If you're a long timer, best to stay put because no one here wants you now. |
Not sure how to interpret this post...my apologies in advance if it has been misinterpreted...but it seems to be a bit condescending to some of the long timers here.
As such, it reads a bit like a rejection letter from a jilted lover...say 5-10 years after the fact.
Tom Dickenharry is dissatisfied with his relationship in NA and wants to try something new and adventurous. Tom breaks up with his gf(NA) and leaves for Korea.
Tom finds a nice job and a good life. Tom moves forward with his life and is doing well. Things are good for Tom.
Then one day...some many years into the future....Tom checks his email...and oddly enough there is one from his ex in NA.
She writes(read condescendingly lectures)...You left me either because you were young and wanted adventure (which is cool) or because you couldn't get employment in NA which is not cool because millions of others did. You have been gone so long...best to stay put...I don't want you here now.
Tom sighs...reaches for a tissue and dabs away from his eye a tear of sheer sweet exhilarating ecstasy that he no longer has to put up with that bullshit anymore.
End of story.  |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| hack wrote: |
| If you ever intend to return to North America, remember, your time in Korea is going to be looked at by employers the same as travel time ie: it's worth squat in NA. You did it either because you were young and wanted adventure (which is cool) or because you couldn't get employment in NA which is not cool because millions of others did. If you're a long timer, best to stay put because no one here wants you now. |
Pure BS. Sorry but it is.
I know a lot of people who made the transition from Korea to NA successfully after an extended period (years) in Korea. Success depends on what you do with your time in Korea. Your experience in Korea will be valuable if you accumulated the right type of experience AND worked to improve your credentials. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
Tom sighs...reaches for a tissue and dabs away from his eye a tear of sheer sweet exhilarating ecstasy that he no longer has to put up with that bullshit anymore.
End of story. |
lol.
..its well known that guys tend to go to asia and never return. Its a black hole for western guys.
Finding a new life abroad isn't for everyone but its always felt right to me. And yeah I really do not miss the whole daily struggle of the west. To make it there seems like you have to join the company and hang in there like a limpet for most of your life. Thats not really what I call living. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| hack wrote: |
| If you ever intend to return to North America, remember, your time in Korea is going to be looked at by employers the same as travel time ie: it's worth squat in NA. You did it either because you were young and wanted adventure (which is cool) or because you couldn't get employment in NA which is not cool because millions of others did. If you're a long timer, best to stay put because no one here wants you now. |
As already said, this is nonsense of the worst kind. There have been plenty of threads where a person has gone back to become a teacher back home and their Korean experience was counted either in part or in full in terms of their experience as a teacher here.
Just be quiet if you are going to fear-monger. We've got plenty of these people who are here already. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
Tom sighs...reaches for a tissue and dabs away from his eye a tear of sheer sweet exhilarating ecstasy that he no longer has to put up with that bullshit anymore.
End of story. |
lol.
..its well known that guys tend to go to asia and never return. Its a black hole for western guys.
Finding a new life abroad isn't for everyone but its always felt right to me. And yeah I really do not miss the whole daily struggle of the west. To make it there seems like you have to join the company and hang in there like a limpet for most of your life. Thats not really what I call living. |
There is one thing that rarely gets discussed here and you hint at it in your post Julius. Usually that issue gets trampled in the hurry of posters to limit living long term in Korea to being some unemployable loser back home and thats expected and too bad.
What the heck am I talking about?
Home, thats what!
Home is where you live and work and for many expats, ABROAD becomes home. I am sure you know some people like this. I sure do. A good friend of my brothers' and my friend as well moved abroad (Vietnam) in the mid-1990s. He stayed there 2 years, then moved to HK. He has been in HK since then. In that time span he returned to Canada for visits every few years and his reaction: "this is no longer home for me". My brother who has lived in Japan since the 1990s as well, is married there and has kids, also does not crave Canada as a home. Both of these people are highly employable back home (they have qualifications and experience) but they have made a life in another country. I have to say, prior to returning to Canada I felt much the same.
These people, like many others, have made their life abroad, they are not losers nor are they missing the "real life" thats so often brandishes around on here.
This phenomenon is pretty interesting and certainly does widen the meaning of home!
Conversely, moving back to your home country does not mean you have to join the "company" and hang in there like a limpet! People get stuck in ruts of their own making abroad as well as back in their country of origin.... |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:54 am Post subject: Re: Why you shouldn't come to Korea |
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| kabrams wrote: |
| it is Japanese that is hardest for native English speakers, not Korean. |
Look at the official source (page 52). It shows Korean as the most difficult language they teach, even more difficult than Arabic, Cantonese, Mandarin Chinese, or Japanese.
http://fsitraining.state.gov/training/Language%20Continuum.pdf |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| valkerie wrote: |
You make some good points.
I just want to say, (for the sale of balance), that it is possible to get a uni job without a post grad. |
In 2011/2012? Very unlikely. In the past (even one or two years ago) it happened often.
But I mean, I'm not a total expert on everything. It is just that from what I have seen and observered, getting a university job without previous university experience (sans PhD), now seems nearly impossible.
If you have observed differently, I welcome your viewpoint.
I am seeing things going down the tubes (especially for those who are new to the game, and weren't lucky enough to have had the opportunity to get their foot in the door early, before things changed.) |
What do you mean people need a Ph.D. to teach at universities since 2011? It's not true. I know a fellow from England teaching in Seoul with an M.A. A friend of mine just got a job at university in Seoul, and she has an M.A. She does have teaching experience at a Korean university.
I have a uni job. I was a graduate teaching assistant in the U.S., but many of my colleagues didn't have that experience. I would say many universities hire people with an M.A., but it's getting more competitive. |
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