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cfile2
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
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 Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| cfile2 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| cfile2 wrote: |
[.
Overall, Korea has the highest in the OECD nations. That is what the data shows. This article wasn't arguing the nuances of statistical methods used to gather the data. |
And that is why it may be a misleading conclusion. Two things. According to Wiki first up to and including 2007 Japan had a higher suicide rate
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| In 2007, Japan ranked first among G8 countries for female suicides and second, behind Russia, for male suicides.[12] |
Secondly Japan's reporting of what they consider suicides is considerably stricter than say what the WHO uses. Other countries also have different standards of reporting. This leads to numbers being skewed as well. Korea uses the WHO standards while Japan applies a stricter standard. Can't really be compared. To be a really accurate statistician that should also be considered as well. Of course if you just want to complain about Korea you can ignore all the extenuating circumstances. Don't be surprised when others point them out though.
And speaking of Japan:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/03/japan-honourable-suicide-rate
Korea may have the highest rates in the OCED in 2009 but Japan has the highest total.
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| In 2009, Japan's suicide total rose 2% to 32,845, equating to nearly 26 suicides per 100,000 people and significantly higher than for any other OECD country. |
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*sigh* There you go. You made the claim. |
Do you understand what IF means? I mentioned a possibility I did not make a claim. |
I'm not going to get bogged down in semantics with you. A reasonable person could assume from what you wrote that you were trying to call me out for complaining. Especially since you followed it with "don't be surprised when people call you out on it."
So your implication: If you complain then people will call you out.
KT was calling me out for something and you were responding to that. Thus, you were essentially saying "you complained and KT rightfully called you out."
Whatever. It doesn't matter. I'm done. I gave KT the last word that he so badly seemed to want.
I don't need to defend my reading of what you wrote. You know that anyone could reasonably draw that conclusion. I've seen your other posts and you seem like an intelligent person. In fact, when I read your posts about people complaining here, I tend to agree most of the time.
We agree to disagree on the use of statistics in this particular article. I still think that everything the counselors said and the stories they told were worth writing about. I don't think that one little (and highly debatable) statement makes the article "useless" as KT has said and we'll just have to leave it at that.
Have a nice weekend celebrating the holidays
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drcrazy
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Location: Pusan. Yes, that's right. Pusan NOT Busan. I ain't never been to no place called Busan
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
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| I don't think the author has sensationalized anything, misrepresented data or lashed out at any group of people. |
I never said they did. I am commenting on the subject matter and how it has gotten out of hand that someone would write an article about it rather than the hardships which bring people to the brink of suicide.
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| He focuses on a few personal stories |
As I stated, the focus should be on the hardships faced before someone is considering suicide, not that actual act. When you are covering an accident, it is after the fact. If you want to prevent it, you look to the causes.
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| But not at the rate it does in Korea. |
Where are your facts? Don't just reference a study or a report you gathered. Give the actual data, who is representing this so called truth you are reporting?
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| Interestingly, I had heard that Korea had the highest rate in the world for suicide. |
Yes, that's how a lot of misinformation and gossip gets passed around. Now, stop amplifying it in news articles until you have done the research and you don't have to "hear" about it. I hear about it too, it doesn't mean it is true.
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| How do you feel the data was misrepresented in the article? |
It wasn't. You are missing the point. You are talking about something based on the "trending" value. People think that suicide rates are more significant in Korea than elsewhere, and therefore you want to cover this story. However, you fail to truly know the facts and are only reporting based on what you hear, not what you know.
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| All I ever read from major news organizations before I wrote this was about 300-400 word articles laden with statistics without context. |
If you admit the statistics were not given in context, why say things, like "This gives South Korea one of the highest suicide rates in the developed world", and why do you quote people who don't have the context? At least you aren't telling us in the article where and how they reached their conclusions. You are just passing their assumptions along onto the reader and then saying, "one of the highest suicide rates". BOLOGNA.
If you don't agree with what they are saying or there is reasonable doubt, then you shouldn't be reporting on it. If you don't see the reasonable doubt, then I ask you, where is the proof? Not what you hear, but where is the proof?
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| people are feeling their way through the dark in an attempt to do something about it. |
What gives you the right to speak for them? How do you know this is true?
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| I may have misinterpreted KT's post anyway. Maybe it was a poem? |
Wow, if you don't go along with the crowd you are attacked. This is worse than an individual wanting to kill themself. These suicides are not a result of one person killing themself. These are often copycat acts to fit in with society.
You have just established a stronger argument that these people are not feeling their way through the dark. They clearly see in the light what others are doing, and they are simply following suit. These people are not closed to the world and deciding to kill themselves.
I wish people would take a closer look at the facts, not what others tell them and then report what they hear making it look like it is established truth. That's all. |
In the name of God, will Koreatimes ever learn how to use the quote function. You never know who he is quoting. Sometimes he will just quote one person and not say who it is and then other times he will have a post full of quotes from different posters and not say who they are. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| You never know who he is quoting. |
The quotes are for the people who made them, not spectators. They should be able to look at each quote and know if they posted it or not.
If a spectator follows the conversation, then they too will know who said what to whom, what base who was on, and where what went to (right?  ) . What difference does it make if a spectator thinks 1 person or 10 different people made replies (I am addressing the subject matter, not the person)? If they are that lazy, maybe they shouldn't read the thread. |
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