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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| sirius black wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
But as soon as you enter another country, you're subject to their laws.
If you want to be "safe inside the American legal system", you should never leave the States. |
I totally agree. I don't think I posted that American laws should be applied outside America. Hope I didn't give that impression. I know once I go to another country, I have to follow their laws. |
BUT...
a) American laws CAN, have been and ARE applied to Americans committing offenses abroad (see my previous post) and
b) to foreigners abroad alleged to have committed offenses (or simply planning to commit offenses) against American interests even though they never step foot on US soil...
i) anyone in detention in Guantanamo) even though it is illegal for Americans to do so.
ii) common practice for the DEA all over central and south America,
iii) USMC - kidnap a foreign president and drag him to the States for prosecution and do it live on CNN,
iv) USAF - drone attacks in foreign (ALLIED) countries,
v) USN - Seals would never invade a country and commit kidnappings and murder, would they?
vi) US Coast Guard - boarding foreign flagged vessels in international waters without legal privilege or right among others.
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But what? How does any of my post say those are okay? There are exceptions. For instance, Pakistan hosting bin Laden for example. Knowingly or unknowingly (I tend to think the former).
I'd love to see us close up shop on these far flung bases world wide and bring almost all of them home except where we are bound by treaty if there are any. I'd certainy bring the 28k military in Korea home as well as closing the base on Okinawa and other parts in Japan. Not sure where I'd keep a base outside the U.S. including Gitmo. We should be normalizing relations with Cuba anyway. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| weso1 wrote: |
Let's go ahead and install a global currency and political system while we're at it.. |
So we scrap our bill of rights and constitution then? |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:47 am Post subject: |
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[quote="young_clinton"]
| sirius black wrote: |
| young_clinton wrote: |
a defense lawyer could attach American standards to foreign law enforcement and jurisprudence. It makes it difficult for both sides.
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A defense lawyer in America could better defend his client against the far reaching arm of the government. This is what America is about and what the defense system in Britian is about. What's wrong with that? |
Whats wrong is it is fair and just to try a person in the jurisdiction the crime was committed. Because its THEIR law that was broken. Its one of the cornerstones of law. You are an Arizona resident and commit a crime in California and go back to Arizona, Arizona doesnt try you for your California crime. They send you back to California to stand trial.
The evidence, witnesses, etc. are in the place the crime was committed. So logistically its a nightmare as well.
Sorry but it makes no sense to try an American in America for a foregn law they broke in that country. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| sirius black wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
Let's go ahead and install a global currency and political system while we're at it.. |
So we scrap our bill of rights and constitution then? |
You already have.
Like sheep to the slaughter in the name of big business.
| sirius black wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
| sirius black wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
But as soon as you enter another country, you're subject to their laws.
If you want to be "safe inside the American legal system", you should never leave the States. |
I totally agree. I don't think I posted that American laws should be applied outside America. Hope I didn't give that impression. I know once I go to another country, I have to follow their laws. |
BUT...
a) American laws CAN, have been and ARE applied to Americans committing offenses abroad (see my previous post) and
b) to foreigners abroad alleged to have committed offenses (or simply planning to commit offenses) against American interests even though they never step foot on US soil...
i) anyone in detention in Guantanamo) even though it is illegal for Americans to do so.
ii) common practice for the DEA all over central and south America,
iii) USMC - kidnap a foreign president and drag him to the States for prosecution and do it live on CNN,
iv) USAF - drone attacks in foreign (ALLIED) countries,
v) USN - Seals would never invade a country and commit kidnappings and murder, would they?
vi) US Coast Guard - boarding foreign flagged vessels in international waters without legal privilege or right among others.
. |
But what? How does any of my post say those are okay? There are exceptions. For instance, Pakistan hosting bin Laden for example. Knowingly or unknowingly (I tend to think the former).
I'd love to see us close up shop on these far flung bases world wide and bring almost all of them home except where we are bound by treaty if there are any. I'd certainy bring the 28k military in Korea home as well as closing the base on Okinawa and other parts in Japan. Not sure where I'd keep a base outside the U.S. including Gitmo. We should be normalizing relations with Cuba anyway. |
Wasn't a determination of right and wrong.
Was a statement that US law is applied extra-territorially on a regular basis and often breaking the laws of the US AND other counties to do it.
| sirius black wrote: |
Whats wrong is it is fair and just to try a person in the jurisdiction the crime was committed. Because its THEIR law that was broken. Its one of the cornerstones of law. You are an Arizona resident and commit a crime in California and go back to Arizona, Arizona doesnt try you for your California crime. They send you back to California to stand trial.
The evidence, witnesses, etc. are in the place the crime was committed. So logistically its a nightmare as well.
Sorry but it makes no sense to try an American in America for a foregn law they broke in that country. |
Point is that the US regularly DOES do that - as in the examples cited above and not just to Americans.
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| sirius black wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
Let's go ahead and install a global currency and political system while we're at it.. |
So we scrap our bill of rights and constitution then? |
A global currency might not be a bad idea actually. Nobody in their right mind would go to war with a country that shares a currency, and with a global currency we wouldn't be having these stupid trade wars whose sole purpose is to find out who can devalue their currency the fastest. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| A global currency might not be a bad idea actually. Nobody in their right mind would go to war with a country that shares a currency, and with a global currency we wouldn't be having these stupid trade wars whose sole purpose is to find out who can devalue their currency the fastest. |
Sure you would have trade wars.
It is not about the currency. Even when there was a predominantly global currency (ie:gold and silver) there were trade wars (along with the other kind of wars too).
Add the case where a multinational currency without a strong central control of the monetary and fiscal policies of the governments involved can lead to things like the current debacle in Europe.
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
Point is that the US regularly DOES do that - as in the examples cited above and not just to Americans.
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Not disagreeing. Doesn't make it right. Not saying you are but you're preaching to the choir. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| sirius black wrote: |
| weso1 wrote: |
Let's go ahead and install a global currency and political system while we're at it.. |
So we scrap our bill of rights and constitution then? |
A global currency might not be a bad idea actually. Nobody in their right mind would go to war with a country that shares a currency, and with a global currency we wouldn't be having these stupid trade wars whose sole purpose is to find out who can devalue their currency the fastest. |
Another person who wants to end America and usurp our rights, laws and reduce the constitution of the U.S to toilet paper with no meaning.
By the way, I can unequivocally guarantee you it won't stop wars. Human nature buddy. If one currency could stop wars mankind would have done it already. In every civil war both sides started out with the same currency as well. So it hasn't stopped people who are the same and so its going to stop people who have historical differences like the Israelis/Palestinians? Indians/Pakistanis? Greeks/Turks? NY Yankees/Redsox  ? |
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