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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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 Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:32 am Post subject: Re: Comparing American salaries to ESL salaries here |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| it is disingenuous to count a college grad waiting tables as employed. |
Right. Their salary is under reported as they pocket most of their tips rather than claim those earnings. Their income on paper looks lower than it really is.
Do you lack the confidence to think you would be able to do better than a job waiting tables (or no job at all) in the United States?
| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| I couldn't find where you were getting that 8 mil a month number. |
Try 9 mil a month it you want a closer estimate.
$2.8 million USD times 1.3 divided by 40.
That's a number for a white male. Most people on this board are white males. A significant number might be Korean, too, but did you know Asian Americans on average earn even more than whites (last I checked)? |
http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/acs-14.pdf
This is the census' actual survey.
Explain your math. Again, where are you getting these numbers? I see the 2.8 mil from the article, and I get the 40 years but what is this 1.3?
Use the actual census data and figure your math again.
Some major flaws - assuming everyone on here is a white male, assuming that the average numbers are useful when the census data shows that people in the 25-29 category make about 45k a year vs 60k a year for the top earners (the vast majority of people here are sub-30), and dividing a rough number by another rough number (2.8 by 40).
Also, waiters and waitresses who report a difference of 10% for their cash tips vs. credit card tips get audited. They can't pocket their earnings. And no, I know I could do better than waiting tables - I have a Masters degree, as well as plenty of connections and abilities. I do this job here because it affords me better peripheral opportunities. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:49 am Post subject: Re: Comparing American salaries to ESL salaries here |
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| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| what is this 1.3? |
It's there for a reason. See if you can figure it out. 
| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| Also, waiters and waitresses who report a difference of 10% for their cash tips vs. credit card tips get audited. They can't pocket their earnings. |
Yet, every waitress or bartender I have ever met has pocketed a majority of their tips. None of them were audited.
| nathanrutledge wrote: |
| I have a Masters degree |
Then you might be interested in this:
| Quote: |
| A master�s degree typically adds about $500,000 to lifetime earnings |
(BTW, are you a white male or Asian male? I think you are, and I think nearly everyone reading this thread is as well.) |
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thegadfly
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| thegadfly wrote: |
| Social security is 6.2% of earnings paid by the government and 6.2% paid by the employee... |
Incorrect. 6.2% is paid by the employer, while 4.2% is paid by the employee. (What you are citing was correct in the past, but is not longer the case.) |
...so the 6.2%, the only part of the contribution that ISN'T from the employee's salary, and therefore the only part that is arguably IN ADDITION to the employee's salary was correct...and so my point remains valid and unchanged? 6.2%, 4.2%, 42% -- if it is the portion paid by the employee, the percent doesn't actually matter -- it is only the matching contributions from an employer or the government that adds earnings -- the 4.2% is just a forced savings that can't be drawn upon until one reaches retirement age....
I'd rather make my own investments and earn my own interest or ROI for that 4.2%...but then, I am all about personal responsibility.... |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| thegadfly wrote: |
| the 4.2% is just a forced savings that can't be drawn upon until one reaches retirement age.... |
So the forced savings has been reduced. Isn't that a good thing for you? |
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:51 am Post subject: |
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World Traveler,
Are you the son of Real Reality, one of the hall of fame posters?
Nobody liked him much either but he always made for a good argument.
I think there are some standard rules of thumb for ESL salaries in Korea.
1. Don't look at what you earn - look at what you save.
2. Most people are not even here for a year and of those who stay it is only for two or three years.
3. Median salary in the U.S. is across all professions and over all years of experience so it is not reflective of a single year in Korea but it can be reflective over one's lifetime career.
4. Korea is good for two or three year max to pay down debt, see the world and/or have some fun before joining the "real world."
5. Korea is not good for long term employment (salaries stagnate and employment becomes harder as you get older) unless you have extremely strong credentials, work in higher level positions and/or a go-getter on an F-visa.
6. One of the main reasons to go join the "real world" back in your home country is because experience over your career will pay off considerably and the benefit packages are significantly better.
7. How you live is your choice. People have many reasons to stay in Korea. If you have one, feel free to ignore one through six. |
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Malislamusrex
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:09 am Post subject: |
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I took the worst case example and the study took the best case.
but you are right, we can just throw numbers about to validate this study.
| World Traveler wrote: |
| Malislamusrex wrote: |
| $0 for 40%. |
Recheck your math. Out of that percentage, many work part time. They are certainly earning more than $0 per year. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| Unposter wrote: |
World Traveler,
Are you the son of Real Reality, one of the hall of fame posters? |
Don't worry, man. After today you won't have see anymore terrible posts by me. I resolved to leave these forums for 2012.
And I agree with what you said (and I would say many others do not), but about this part: "1. Don't look at what you earn - look at what you save.", many don't realize or consider the amount of money being paid into one's retirement account. That is all. (And you addressed that.)
| Unposter wrote: |
| personally, I think WorldTraveler brings up all kinds of interesting threads. I don't always agree with him but they are always interesting and thought provoking. And, nothing wrong with wanting to improve your conditions. The topic of salaries, social class and economics in Korea is fascinating one. |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| I resolved to leave these forums for 2012. |
Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:11 am
That was an amazingly short New Year's resolution.  |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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He said the same for 2011 as well....twice This makes what the third time?
Hopefully the third time is the charm. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:42 am Post subject: |
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Time and Time again.
same old same old.
You are using simple math to achieve what, a comparison of bananass with pears.
First consideration
Can you get a job
Second consideration
Some spice in your life
Third consideration
Working 30 hours a week ain't all that bad
Fourth consideration
Type of degree doesn't matter, would love to see someone with arts degree get 70k a year
Your simple math makes a lot of assumptions.
If the pay was so bad, why would so many people actually come over and make a living?
If living conditions were so bad, why do so many of them stay for multiple years?
The results are just telling you the opposite of anything you say. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Juregen wrote: |
| Type of degree doesn't matter, would love to see someone with arts degree get 70k a year |
I actually know a fair number of poli sci and econ people who are there, or well on their way. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| chasmmi wrote: |
I have just taken a pay cut to come to Korea from the UK.
(was earning 16.5k in London and have just spent about 1500 pounds to have the privelige of earning 14.4k (inc. end of contract bonus here)
So my salary for the coming year has taken essentially taken a 3500 pound hit. A pay cut of over 20%.
Using these stats alone and I could write an article with numbers and stats to show that my choice is an incredibly stupid one.
But when one factors in cost of living...
London:
1350 pounds per month before tax
Remove tax...
1000 pounds
remove rent
550 pounds (if one is prepared to share a not very nice house with about 4 others and sacrifice living room etc.)
remove mobile phone bills, Tube travel for the month.
400 pounds
remove basic food and liquid requirements (not eating/drinking out, just water, milk, vegetables rice etc)
350 pounds
remove lunch and coffee at work
230 pounds
So therefore I now have about 50 pounds a week left for going out, meeting friends and saving for the future. (So long as I do not need to buy anything like clothes, replacement electronics or if anything breaks).
As one night out in London without overdoing it at all will set you back 25-30 quid I can essentially enjoy one mild night out a week and so long as I go straight home the other 6 days and partake in zero hobbies or interests I can save a good 50 quid a month.
Now look at Korea.
Wage 2.2M (Once you add 1/12 of the monthly bonus to each months total).
minus tax
2.15M
Minus rent (free) and bills
2M
Minus mobile phone bills, travel for the month.
1.9M
Minus home food bills
1.8M
Minus Lunch and Coffee
1.5M
Why not throw in cable TV, and a monthly weekend KTX trip to Seoul staying at a motel for two nights.
1.2M
Go out with friends every Friday and Saturday for food, beers and soju and then a Noraebang after and a taxi home. Lets say every eveing is Semi extravagent. Ordering lots of anju but no booking clubs or bottles of whiskey or whatever.
650k
So even with all that and living a crazier life than I plan to and going out every free eveing I have I am still able to banking 360 quid a month.
If I was happy to live in Korea, the near-hermit Life I would have to live in London on 16.5k (let alone 14.4) I could be banking around 800 pounds a month.
So the fact of the matter is to live like I can live in Korea (the going out every weekend night and spending about 50-60k each time example) in London and still be abe to save 300+ pounds at the end of each month, I would need to earn...
Rent - 450
All bills inc. cable- 250
Visiting another city once a month train and 2 nights hotel - 150
London travel - 120
lunch (at a restaurant, not staff canteen), and coffee - 200
going out every Friday and Sat and reasonable living it up - 650
savings for the bank - 300
total 2120 require after tax and NI
Thus my required pre-tax Monthly earnings to be able to live my Korea life in London and save what I can save on an entry level Korean teaching salary is...
Probably about 3k.
A know I have rambled on a lot about pretty much nothing and have probably been naive/stupid/just plain overlooked some stuff, but the way I see it is that 14-15grand a year in Korea roughly equates to 35 grand a year in the UK.
Now it may be different with regards to USA or wherever but the fact remains that my 16.5K a year job in London would have had to actually offered to double my salary just to make it as attractive as the Korean option once you factor in cost of living and so essentially my ridiculous ramble can be summed up in about 8 words:
Average salary per nation data means sod all. |
Thats the same maths I did early on and I've never regretted the trade-off.
You have to look at the bigger picture, everything in perspective. What you enjoy in life and what are your priorities.
just taking a quick look on facebook at the lives of guys back in UK who went for the whole mortgage and company job.. and I really do not envy them. |
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