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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:05 am Post subject: |
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Guys, you know me and I'm as apologist as they come.
But I'd rather end up dead or crapping myself trying to distract and everything than to see something like that and do nothing.
Look, the person might have been a transvestite pedophile rapist, in which case I won't argue against street justice, BUT you don't know that when its going down.
Or it could be a case of pimps beating their worker for no reason other than to make a point.
But you gotta do something. If it IS that serious that they deserved a whuppin, then what you do won't make a difference. They'll get that beating anyways. But if it IS a blown out of proportion thing, then at least trying to mitigate it (not excuse) is worth it.
In order to live with myself I have to believe that I'd have the courage to make a fool out of myself to save a skull fracture.
Not saying I'd mess with Thai gangsters and go in swinging, but like I said be a cowardly hero at least.
Its not about Western-hero projection-imperialism white heroness. Its about a person getting whupped on the street.
The mob has its occasional times (like pedophiles caught in the act), but largely it is nothing more than a riotous criminal assembly.
Like other posters said, it would be awfully hard to live with onesself.
Put it this way, if it was some Korean meth-fiend rip off artist prostitute getting beat by upstanding waygook citizens we'd cry foul.
I can't help but say that if I saw that I would at least think "All right, that's enough. Make a physical point as a pimp if you must, but that's just too much."
From the story it sounded like it moved beyond the "whup em to teach them a lesson" phase and on to just mob thuggery. |
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everything-is-everything
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| madoka wrote: |
| Zulethe wrote: |
| The last time I experienced bystander apathy was when I was 18 in Seattle and I watched this guy run by me with a lady's purse and did nothing. It took me a long, long time to get over that one. |
Hey, no need to pick on Zulethe.
Even though this thief would later kill his beloved uncle, he did eventually learn that with great power comes great responsibility. |
Perhaps the greatest response in Daves Esl Cafe History! 
Bravo! |
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Maserial
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: The Web
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| I can't help but say that if I saw that I would at least think "All right, that's enough. Make a physical point as a pimp if you must, but that's just too much." |
Yeah, 'cause violence against women is appropriate when it involves keeping those bitches in line, right? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Maserial wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| I can't help but say that if I saw that I would at least think "All right, that's enough. Make a physical point as a pimp if you must, but that's just too much." |
Yeah, 'cause violence against women is appropriate when it involves keeping those bitches in line, right? |
Dude, those women are saints only in the movies. In the real world of running tail there's a lot of scuzz involved.
You're talking meth addicts, people who aren't intimidated by anything bu violence, thieves, snitches, traitors, etc.
What's a pimp (or another hooker) supposed to do if some girl steals drugs or money? Call the police?
"Uh yeah, Bangkok police. One of my prostitutes stole all of my crystal meth, sold it, and spent it on heroin, and she's snorted it all up. Do you think you could send someone down here to investigate and arrest her?"
Or maybe he could give her a stern talking to.
"Now this is the last time you're going to steal my meth. You ma'am, are on TIME OUT. Consider this formal written notice. If you do this again, I'll have to send you to the disciplinary board where they might suspend your prostitution license." |
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Maserial
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: The Web
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Maserial wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| I can't help but say that if I saw that I would at least think "All right, that's enough. Make a physical point as a pimp if you must, but that's just too much." |
Yeah, 'cause violence against women is appropriate when it involves keeping those bitches in line, right? |
Dude, those women are saints only in the movies. In the real world of running tail there's a lot of scuzz involved.
You're talking meth addicts, people who aren't intimidated by anything bu violence, thieves, snitches, traitors, etc.
What's a pimp (or another hooker) supposed to do if some girl steals drugs or money? Call the police?
"Uh yeah, Bangkok police. One of my prostitutes stole all of my crystal meth, sold it, and spent it on heroin, and she's snorted it all up. Do you think you could send someone down here to investigate and arrest her?"
Or maybe he could give her a stern talking to.
"Now this is the last time you're going to steal my meth. You ma'am, are on TIME OUT. Consider this formal written notice. If you do this again, I'll have to send you to the disciplinary board where they might suspend your prostitution license." |
So a pimp is justified because one of his prostitutes is less than saintly? Last time I checked, he's a pimp. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Maserial wrote: |
| So a pimp is justified because one of his prostitutes is less than saintly? Last time I checked, he's a pimp. |
I think his point is more that if you dance with the devil you're going to wind up in hell. |
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Maserial
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: The Web
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| Maserial wrote: |
| So a pimp is justified because one of his prostitutes is less than saintly? Last time I checked, he's a pimp. |
I think his point is more that if you dance with the devil you're going to wind up in hell. |
Thanks, but I understood his point clearly just as -I presume- he does mine. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Maserial wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Maserial wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| I can't help but say that if I saw that I would at least think "All right, that's enough. Make a physical point as a pimp if you must, but that's just too much." |
Yeah, 'cause violence against women is appropriate when it involves keeping those bitches in line, right? |
Dude, those women are saints only in the movies. In the real world of running tail there's a lot of scuzz involved.
You're talking meth addicts, people who aren't intimidated by anything bu violence, thieves, snitches, traitors, etc.
What's a pimp (or another hooker) supposed to do if some girl steals drugs or money? Call the police?
"Uh yeah, Bangkok police. One of my prostitutes stole all of my crystal meth, sold it, and spent it on heroin, and she's snorted it all up. Do you think you could send someone down here to investigate and arrest her?"
Or maybe he could give her a stern talking to.
"Now this is the last time you're going to steal my meth. You ma'am, are on TIME OUT. Consider this formal written notice. If you do this again, I'll have to send you to the disciplinary board where they might suspend your prostitution license." |
So a pimp is justified because one of his prostitutes is less than saintly? Last time I checked, he's a pimp. |
Yes, because pimps are moral people who are in the business to help others and feed the homeless. Please, its the scuzz dealing with the scuzz. You're talking a system where hard drugs function as currency and prison is a sign of respect. A system where you are either predator or prey.
Now I will do something to try and hault a stomping. But I am going to be rather indifferent to a regular whuppin.
Well do you have an alternative should one of his girls steal his crystal meth or money? What if one of them rips off a john? |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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I get your overall point Steelrails, but you would seriously drop trou and drop a deuce to distract people and get them to stop wailing on someone? On a seedy street? At 4:30 in the mo'n?
Have you ever successfully executed this maneuver? |
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Maserial
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: The Web
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Yes, because pimps are moral people who are in the business to help others and feed the homeless. Please, its the scuzz dealing with the scuzz. You're talking a system where hard drugs function as currency and prison is a sign of respect. A system where you are either predator or prey.
Now I will do something to try and hault a stomping. But I am going to be rather indifferent to a regular whuppin.
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As is often the case whenever we interact, you seem to be confused or, at the very least, misunderstand me - aptly demonstrated by your seemingly incessant urge to elaborate upon this notion of underworld ethics as a means to 'enlighten' me. Rest assured that I get it and simply have a different opinion than you.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Well do you have an alternative should one of his girls steal his crystal meth or money? What if one of them rips off a john? |
Fair enough, though it could also be a case of a pimp beating up one of his girls because she had the audacity to ask for some of his meth, or because a john said she ripped him off when in fact he's simply mad that she wouldn't let him use a broomstick on her. My point being, of course, is that in the absence of information, I choose to think of it [some pimp beating a prostitute] as deplorable. |
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Maserial
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: The Web
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
I get your overall point Steelrails, but you would seriously drop trou and drop a deuce to distract people and get them to stop wailing on someone? On a seedy street? At 4:30 in the mo'n?
Have you ever successfully executed this maneuver? |
I'll be the first to step aside to make room for that kind of story. Discussions of morality come and go, but poop stories -unlike the stuff from which they arise- are eternal.
Edit:
That may have come across as snide but I'm dead serious. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
I get your overall point Steelrails, but you would seriously drop trou and drop a deuce to distract people and get them to stop wailing on someone? On a seedy street? At 4:30 in the mo'n?
Have you ever successfully executed this maneuver? |
Have to try something...
Like I said, you could start a fight or something with yourself or some other nutball behavior.
Now I personally haven't done this, but I once saw a fight stop because some drunk girl barfed all over herself.
| Quote: |
| My point being, of course, is that in the absence of information, I choose to think of it [some pimp beating a prostitute] as deplorable. |
That kind of soft spot is exactly how tricks mark johns.
Don't trust no one involved in that game. Don't assume that someone is nobler or more likely a villain because of their gender. They are in the game. |
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wintermute
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Maserial wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Yes, because pimps are moral people who are in the business to help others and feed the homeless. Please, its the scuzz dealing with the scuzz. You're talking a system where hard drugs function as currency and prison is a sign of respect. A system where you are either predator or prey.
Now I will do something to try and hault a stomping. But I am going to be rather indifferent to a regular whuppin.
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As is often the case whenever we interact, you seem to be confused or, at the very least, misunderstand me - aptly demonstrated by your seemingly incessant urge to elaborate upon this notion of underworld ethics as a means to 'enlighten' me. Rest assured that I get it and simply have a different opinion than you. |
Maybe he mistook your snide remarks for requests for clarification.
Maybe he was correcting your misattribution of the word 'appropriate' to him.
Either way, he was referring to his own threshold for intervention, not the ethics of beating women. Get it?
As for your opinions - either express them in a less obtuse manner, or stop moaning about being misunderstood. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Well if Steelrails doesn't have a good poop-stopping-fight story, I guess I'm outties on this thread...such a letdown! |
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Maserial
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: The Web
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| wintermute wrote: |
| Maybe he mistook your snide remarks for requests for clarification. |
Steelrails is a grown man who gives as good as he gets. He'll be fine.
| Quote: |
| Maybe he was correcting your misattribution of the word 'appropriate' to him. |
Fair point, though within the context of our discussion both of us seem okay with it, if only as a springboard.
| Quote: |
| Either way, he was referring to his own threshold for intervention, not the ethics of beating women. Get it? |
I sure do, just as I understand the beauty of discourse is that things can shift to match the participants and then back again, if need be. (Speaking of which, I have no problem with his threshold for intervention, and if someone else does, I'm sure they'll comment upon it.)
| Quote: |
| As for your opinions - either express them in a less obtuse manner, or stop moaning about being misunderstood. |
I am guilty of prodding him a bit, sure, but am scarcely moaning let alone being obtuse. Good try, though.
| Steelrails wrote: |
That kind of soft spot is exactly how tricks mark johns.
Don't trust no one involved in that game. Don't assume that someone is nobler or more likely a villain because of their gender. They are in the game. |
I definitely agree that no one is more (or less) villainous due to gender, though the one in power (in this case, the pimp) is certainly in a much better position from which to dispense violence and/or cruelty, be it prompted by a complaint, act of disloyalty, theft of property, etc. Granted, that power is an integral portion of the whole 'pimps up, hos down' dynamic but also reflects an unfortunate imbalance present in many other areas of the world. |
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