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ghostrider
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
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 Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:52 am Post subject: Koreans Unsatisfied with NETs in Public Schools |
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Starting from August 2009, the government hired 2,996 foreign English teachers in elementary, middle and high schools across the country, and the total number reached 6,255 as of last February. The government opens new positions in February and August.
The official goal was to �enable Koreans who graduate from high school to have conversations in English.� |
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| According to the city education office, 53.7 percent of the students said they preferred to learn English from Korean teachers, while 29.7 percent preferred foreign English teachers. In the survey, 42.1 percent of the students said they can�t understand what �native English teachers [who can�t speak Korean] are talking about.� |
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According to Choi Chun-ok, a supervisor at Seoul Metropolitan Office of Education, the survey results showed that the �efficacy of foreign English teachers is not as high as the amount of money that gets allocated to the project.�
The teachers say the program hasn�t worked too well because the city hired native speakers without any qualifications.
�They took so many people who either did not major in English or who have had no teaching experience at all,� said Morris. �People with no experience think teaching is an easy job, and they don�t know what it takes. It�s not just babysitting.�
In August, 252 foreign teachers will be let go from elementary schools and 200 from middle schools. A total of 4.9 billion won was cut from the 2012 budget to hire foreign English teachers at elementary and middle schools. |
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Some foreign teachers want to lash back at the government�s decision, but they�ve been warned not to.
�Numerous foreign English teachers in Seoul were considering holding protests or taking some form of collective action to express dissatisfaction with the new plan,� Chao said. �But an official from the education office told us that wasn�t a good idea. He said Koreans would only hate us even more.� |
http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2946533&cloc=joongangdaily
The cushy public school jobs couldn't last forever. Tax paying Koreans are not getting their money's worth. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:02 am Post subject: Re: Koreans Unsatisfied with NETs in Public Schools |
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| ghostrider wrote: |
The teachers say the program hasn�t worked too well because the city hired native speakers without any qualifications.
�They took so many people who either did not major in English or who have had no teaching experience at all,� said Morris. �People with no experience think teaching is an easy job, and they don�t know what it takes. It�s not just babysitting. |
Hurrah!
Reality is finally setting in. I could have told them this years ago.
I hope they do raise hiring requirements to include a tesol and exp. Perhaps even a degree in English or linguistics. Bring it on. |
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Kimchifart
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:23 am Post subject: Re: Koreans Unsatisfied with NETs in Public Schools |
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| Julius wrote: |
| ghostrider wrote: |
The teachers say the program hasn�t worked too well because the city hired native speakers without any qualifications.
�They took so many people who either did not major in English or who have had no teaching experience at all,� said Morris. �People with no experience think teaching is an easy job, and they don�t know what it takes. It�s not just babysitting. |
Hurrah!
Reality is finally setting in. I could have told them this years ago.
I hope they do raise hiring requirements to include a tesol and exp. Perhaps even a degree in English or linguistics. Bring it on. |
A degree in linguistics does not teach you how to teach English, they are theoretical. They should just make CELTAs a basic requirement across the board, that would iron out a lot of the turds. However, I'm sure the main problem is the unprofessional system in which the teachers operate. |
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joelove
Joined: 12 May 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:29 am Post subject: |
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I doubt the best teachers in the world would make much difference. They're just realizing that yeah, learning the language isn't easy or fun, and many students lack interest and motivation, and who can blame them, as they don't use it or need it outside the classroom. They're just kids, in big groups, many only seeing a foreigner once a week for 40 minutes or so. The greatest teachers ever will not make them that much better at English. Some learn a fair bit of English at a hagwon or from a tutor or living overseas. Few learn much more than the most basic English at a public school.
Or am I wrong about anything I've written? |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:46 am Post subject: Re: Koreans Unsatisfied with NETs in Public Schools |
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| Kimchifart wrote: |
A degree in linguistics does not teach you how to teach English, they are theoretical. They should just make CELTAs a basic requirement across the board, that would iron out a lot of the turds. However, I'm sure the main problem is the unprofessional system in which the teachers operate. |
Yeah, and I've got some TEFL Amway to sell you... keep drinking the coffee...
I'll take a 4 year BA in Education with certifications over a 1 month CELTA course any day of the week and twice on Sunday. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| joelove wrote: |
I doubt the best teachers in the world would make much difference. They're just realizing that yeah, learning the language isn't easy or fun, and many students lack interest and motivation, and who can blame them, as they don't use it or need it outside the classroom. They're just kids, in big groups, many only seeing a foreigner once a week for 40 minutes or so. The greatest teachers ever will not make them that much better at English. Some learn a fair bit of English at a hagwon or from a tutor or living overseas. Few learn much more than the most basic English at a public school.
Or am I wrong about anything I've written? |
Are you kidding?
Sure they do.
Kids can use english every day.
English language video, music, movies, tv, comics, etc
What kid isn't interested in that kind of stuff?
A lot of Korean kids are interested in at least one of those things in English, especially music. Give them a reason to care and cater to it and you'll likely see interest grow |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:49 am Post subject: |
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In my humble opinion, CELTA/TEFL/TESOL training should be required for NETs. Teaching a foreign language/second language does require some training, and frankly it's ridiculous to expect somebody with a just a degree in any subject to be able to do this effectively in Korean public schools and get fast results.
However, for the system to be successful, Korean English teachers also need to learn how to work with NETs. They have to be trained, prepared and willing to do this. When I worked in a public school, there was just one Korean English teacher who prepared classes with me, and discussed in advance what we would do in the class. Those classes were a joy to teach, the students loved the class and we both saw real progress in many students. Sadly, the other four KETs didn't bother to do any of that, and often didn't even show up for class. Of course those classes were usually a nightmare.
Personally I think the real outrage here should be directed at those Korean English teachers who know that an NET knows bugger all about teaching and yet still leaves them alone with a class of 40-odd little devils.
And I totally agree with Julius! I'd figured this out 5 years ago during my first year here when I was working in a public school. Hence, I got out of there. |
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DIsbell
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:49 am Post subject: |
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I think it's funny how we still think that an English major is some sort of special qualification for teaching EFL to k12 kids. Let's take a look at the courses available for English majors at a major American university:
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Two courses in literature written before 1700
Two courses in literature written between 1700-1900
One course in literature post-1900
English 2800 (Critical Methods)
One additional course in cultural studies or critical theory
One additional course in minority or postcolonial literature
Three English Department courses of the student�s choice as electives
Literature in English before 1700:
3410 Chaucer
3420 Medieval Literature
3430 English Renaissance 1515-1625
3441 Shakespeare #1 (fall)
3441 Shakespeare #2 (spring)
3450 Special Topics in Shakespeare
3460 Milton
3470 English Drama to 1660 (fall)
4135 Folger Seminar
�Before 1700� OR �1700-1900,� but not both:
3490 Early American Literature
Literature in English between 1700 and 1900:
3480 18th Century #1 (fall)
3481 18th Century #2 (spring)
3530 The Romantic Movement
3540 Victorian literature #1 (fall) 1830-1865
3541 Victorian literature #2 (spring) 1865-1900
3550 English Novel #1: 18th Century
3551 English Novel #2: 19th Century
3520 American Romanticism
3560 American Realism
3620 American Poetry #1 (fall): beginnings through early 20th Century
3640 American Novel #1 (fall): beginning through 19th Century
�Between 1700-1900� OR �After 1900,� but not both:
3510 Children�s Literature
Literature in English after 1900 (See also minority/postcolonial list):
3660 Irish Literature #1
3661 Irish Literature #2
3710 Contemporary Drama, since 1960
3621 American Poetry #2 (spring) Early 20th century to present
3630 American Drama #1 (fall) 19th century through 1950s
3631 American Drama #2 (spring) 1960s-present
3641 American Novel #2 (spring) 20th century
3850 Ethnicity and Place
3650 Short Story
3730 Selected Topics in Postcolonial Literature
3720 Contemporary American Literature #1 (fall)
3721 Contemporary American Literature #2 (spring)
3930 Literature of Black America II : early 20th century to present
3960 Asian American Literature
�After 1900� or �Theory & Cultural Studies,� but not both:
3610 Modernism
Theory & Cultural Studies
2800 Critical Methods
2240 Play Analysis
3830 Special Topics in Theory or Cultural Studies
3840 Gender and Literature
3860 History of the English Language
4040 Senior Honors Seminar (fall) by application in spring of junior year only
4250 Senior Honors Seminar (spring) by application in spring of junior year only
See also courses listed below.
Theory and Culture Studies OR Minority/Postcolonial, but not both:
3910 Disability Studies
3920 Topics in U.S. Latina/o Literature and Culture
3950 Cultural Theory and Black Studies
3965 Topics in Asian American Literature and Culture
3980 Queer Studies
Minority or Postcolonial Literatures:
Each of the following courses may count in the minority postcolonial category OR another category, but not both:
3660 Irish Literature #1 (may count as after 1900)
3661 Irish Literature #2 (may count as after 1900)
3850 Ethnicity and Place (may count as after 1900)
3730 Selected Topics in Postcolonial Literature (may count as after 1900)
3930 Literature of Black America II: early 20 century to the present (may count as after 1900)
3940 Topics in African American Literature Studies (19th or 20th century depending on the section)
3960 Asian American Literature (may count as after 1900)
3970 Jewish American Literature (may count as after 1900) |
I really don't see much that would be applicable to teaching Korean schoolchildren. I don't mean this to belittle English majors; I'm a supporter of liberal arts. However, there's just nothing in most English majors that would bring anything special to the table as far as teaching goes- maybe an English major would be more likely to be sharp on their basic grammar terms than a PoliSci major, but that it so easily brushed up on by any native speaker that it's virtually irrelevant.
I think a case could be made for English majors having something to offer at a university lit or creative writing class. Otherwise, can we get over the whole English major thing? |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| Disbell wrote: |
| there's just nothing in most English majors that would bring anything special to the table as far as teaching goes |
But of course there is. There's a sound understanding and experience of using the English language properly.
Considering that it is in fact the subject you are employed to teach, then obviously it is a relevant qualification.
| tigerfancini wrote: |
| In my humble opinion, CELTA/TEFL/TESOL training should be required for NETs. |
Yes.
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| However, for the system to be successful, Korean English teachers also need to learn how to work with NETs. They have to be trained, prepared and willing to do this |
Yes.
| Swampfox wrote: |
| I'll take a 4 year BA in Education with certifications over a 1 month CELTA course any day of the week and twice on Sunday. |
Sure, but you also have to fit demand to supply. There will never be enough B.Ed's available to fill koreas quota of FT's. Making a CELTA a requirement, however is not unreasonable.
Best that could happen to the Korean Govt English programme right now is for them to cut the number of jobs, but raise salaries, make a CELTA, English or Linguistics degree a requirement. And institute a further payscale to reward experience.
| Kimchifart wrote: |
| A degree in linguistics does not teach you how to teach English, they are theoretical. |
Perhaps, but you could say that about a whole load of degrees in all sorts of subjects. Most university degrees are not vocational, they do not involve on-the-job training.
Obviously a degree in linguistics is more applicable to being a language teacher than is a degree in physics... |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| Disbell wrote: |
| there's just nothing in most English majors that would bring anything special to the table as far as teaching goes |
But of course there is. There's a sound understanding and experience of using the English language properly. |
This applies to pretty much any liberal arts major. |
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Kimchifart
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Koreans Unsatisfied with NETs in Public Schools |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| Kimchifart wrote: |
A degree in linguistics does not teach you how to teach English, they are theoretical. They should just make CELTAs a basic requirement across the board, that would iron out a lot of the turds. However, I'm sure the main problem is the unprofessional system in which the teachers operate. |
Yeah, and I've got some TEFL Amway to sell you... keep drinking the coffee...
I'll take a 4 year BA in Education with certifications over a 1 month CELTA course any day of the week and twice on Sunday. |
You're straw manning me! I didn't say it was better than an Ed degree with certifications. Let me rephrase that, a course that has assessed, critiqued practicum, at the chalk face, is going to be more useful than a degree in linguistic academic theory. Of course the education course might have a practicum element which of course would be better than a CELTA.
Look, a monkey can do this job, you don't need to know the finer details of linguistics to teach elementary/pre-intermediate kids, but what you do need is some experience of how to practically teach. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:29 am Post subject: |
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All you're going to get on a thread like this is all the people without celtas or english degrees trying to claim that they are not necessary.  |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Some of the worst teachers I've seen attempting, and failing, to teach ESL and EFL had CELTAs and/or Education degrees.
None of the best teachers I've seen teaching ESL and EFL had CELTAs and/or Education degrees. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:50 am Post subject: |
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The problem is that they are treating it like patients going to a hospital. We are more like the assistants and the Korean teachers are supposed to be doctors diagnosing and prescribing.
I'll use an analogy of a ski resort (surfing/water skiing at a beach if you prefer warmer weather) and bowling. This is more of what is going on. You can go to a ski resort with nothing and rent the skis or snowboard (bowling, shoes and ball), or you can bring your own. Either scenario doesn't mean you are a better skier or bowler. If there was a league formed and you joined it, you could become better and it wouldn't matter what you started off with.
I have definitely improved over the years and can see how a first time teacher would be inexperienced. They would still need the same number of years. If I went from an adult school to a public elementary school, I would have to start all over. It doesn't matter your qualifications.
I think we need more say so as to what represents success. For example, tests. We should be allowed to provide material that students will be tested on and schools should devote some time to teaching it to students. This way students get it from both a native teacher and a teacher who speaks their language.
Will this happen? Most likely not, but then you could lay some of the blame on the teacher because they would be choosing a portion of what the students would see on the tests. Until then, we are only assistants. We are not going to make a difference unless we open our own school and get enough students to show significant improvements. I have seen this happen. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| Disbell wrote: |
| there's just nothing in most English majors that would bring anything special to the table as far as teaching goes |
But of course there is. There's a sound understanding and experience of using the English language properly. |
This applies to pretty much any liberal arts major. |
\
This applies to virtually any university graduate. If anything, what percentage of Koreans are going abroad to study liberal arts? |
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