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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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 Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:20 pm Post subject: Tales of Vibrant Cultural Diversity |
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Boy, 15, 'tortured to death with hammer and chisels on Christmas Day because relative thought he was a witch'
He suffered 101 separate injuries as he was attacked with weapons including metal poles, pliers, knives, a hammer and heavy ceramic tiles.
His sister and her boyfriend, both 28, are accused of beating him to death because they believed he had been possessed by evil spirits.
Prosecutor Brian Altman QC said the defendants were responsible for �unspeakable savagery� over four days in the locked eighth-floor flat. Those involved were originally from the Congo where �kindoki� witchcraft pervades society, he said.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2082618/Kristy-Bamu-15-tortured-death-witch-claim-Christmas-Day-Newham.html |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm sure I'm not the only person wondering, exactly what are people from the Congo doing in the UK? How do people in England benefit from having thousands of Congolese, not to mention Somalis, and numerous others from failed African states living amongst them. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| I'm sure I'm not the only person wondering, exactly what are people from the Congo doing in the UK? How do people in England benefit from having thousands of Congolese, not to mention Somalis, and numerous others from failed African states living amongst them. |
That would involve examining what England's (as well as other European powers')historical involvement was in Somalia and the regions in the area of the Congo, as well as researching the reasons why they became failed states.
Not surprisingly, the US is not entirely free of blame, either-
http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/post-translated/35675-u-s-role-wars-congo-somalia.html
This internecine conflict created the conditions for famine in the
country, which provided the United States with a rationale for a
large-scale military invasion in December of 1992, under the guise of a
United Nations sponsored relief effort.
This "relief effort", called "Operation Restore Hope", which was
initially greeted with some degree of acceptance by various political
organizations in Somalia, soon degenerated into a large-scale occupation
reminiscent of the colonial period in the nation's history. Somali youth
were randomly beaten and murdered by U.S., Italian, Pakistani and
Canadian military forces.
Under the leadership of the Somali National Alliance (SNA), headed by
Mohammed Farrah Aided, the people resisted the US-UN occupation
vigorously, resulting in thousands of casualties on the Somali side, and
several hundred among the occupying forces.
A major clash on October 3, 1993, resulted in 18 officially reported
deaths of U.S. soldiers and the capturing of an American helicopter
pilot. This then lead to mass opposition to the Clinton policy of
continued occupation. In response to increasing protest activity around
the U.S. and the world, Clinton announced an impending withdrawal from
Somalia, which occured in 1994.
However, despite the defeat of American occupationist aims in the region
in 1993, and the withdrawal of the UN troops in 1994-95, the country has
failed to overcome the factionalism of political parties and the
seccesion of the northern area, which was formerly colonized by the
United Kingdom. At least three different factions have declared
themselves as legitimate governments in Somalia, including Somaliland
and Puntland, despite the fact that no entity in the international
community has officially recognized any of these self-proclaimed
regimes.
Hmm, where have we seen this before...a country torn asunder by US/UN intervention...
Last edited by Stout on Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| At what point do Africans, and African nations become responsible for the state they are in? |
Anyway, my point was more of a rhetorical one. I was asking why on earth is the UK, and other Western nations, allowing in such large numbers of people who will almost certainly end up being an economic burden, and who bring with them such primitive cultural baggage.
Britain had a very limited role in Somalia, and none in the Congo, and we have no obligation to these countries, or to house and feed those who manage to arrive at our shores. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:56 am Post subject: |
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So if some white satanists ritualistically hack and murder someone, is that a reflection on "white culture"?
Should black people advocate against diversity because white people do something strange?
Why is it when a white person does something strange and sick, they are a sick and strange individual, but when a person of a foreign culture and darker skin does something, it all reflects on their culture and there's a whiff of group blame attached, and people cry that we should not let "those people" in? |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| Stout wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| I'm sure I'm not the only person wondering, exactly what are people from the Congo doing in the UK? How do people in England benefit from having thousands of Congolese, not to mention Somalis, and numerous others from failed African states living amongst them. |
That would involve examining what England's (as well as other European powers')historical involvement was in Somalia and the regions in the area of the Congo, as well as researching the reasons why they became failed states.
Not surprisingly, the US is not entirely free of blame, either-
http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/post-translated/35675-u-s-role-wars-congo-somalia.html
This internecine conflict created the conditions for famine in the
country, which provided the United States with a rationale for a
large-scale military invasion in December of 1992, under the guise of a
United Nations sponsored relief effort.
This "relief effort", called "Operation Restore Hope", which was
initially greeted with some degree of acceptance by various political
organizations in Somalia, soon degenerated into a large-scale occupation
reminiscent of the colonial period in the nation's history. Somali youth
were randomly beaten and murdered by U.S., Italian, Pakistani and
Canadian military forces.
Under the leadership of the Somali National Alliance (SNA), headed by
Mohammed Farrah Aided, the people resisted the US-UN occupation
vigorously, resulting in thousands of casualties on the Somali side, and
several hundred among the occupying forces.
A major clash on October 3, 1993, resulted in 18 officially reported
deaths of U.S. soldiers and the capturing of an American helicopter
pilot. This then lead to mass opposition to the Clinton policy of
continued occupation. In response to increasing protest activity around
the U.S. and the world, Clinton announced an impending withdrawal from
Somalia, which occured in 1994.
However, despite the defeat of American occupationist aims in the region
in 1993, and the withdrawal of the UN troops in 1994-95, the country has
failed to overcome the factionalism of political parties and the
seccesion of the northern area, which was formerly colonized by the
United Kingdom. At least three different factions have declared
themselves as legitimate governments in Somalia, including Somaliland
and Puntland, despite the fact that no entity in the international
community has officially recognized any of these self-proclaimed
regimes.
Hmm, where hae we seen this before...a country torn asunder by US/UN intervention... |
So are you saying that British and American empire building is the reason these people do honor killings of their sisters, stonings, and savagely kill 'witches' in their families? |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| So if some white satanists ritualistically hack and murder someone, is that a reflection on "white culture"? |
No, because such incidents are so rare and unprecendented, they are of no reflection of the broader culture. However, female genital mutilation, honour killings, and other primitive cultural norms, are indeed very common in a number of cultures.
| Quote: |
| Should black people advocate against diversity because white people do something strange? |
Remind me which black countries white people are immigrating to en-masse?
It is Western countries which are experiencing mass third-world immigration, and, thus, the indigeneous people of those nations are perfectly entitled to ask themselves how exactly they benefit from this. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| So if some white satanists ritualistically hack and murder someone, is that a reflection on "white culture"? |
No, because such incidents are so rare and unprecendented, they are of no reflection of the broader culture. However, female genital mutilation, honour killings, and other primitive cultural norms, are indeed very common in a number of cultures. |
And yet such things are rare occurences in the West, suggesting that the vast majority of immigrants are more than able to leave the more misguided aspects of their culture behind them. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| So if some white satanists ritualistically hack and murder someone, is that a reflection on "white culture"? |
No, because such incidents are so rare and unprecendented, they are of no reflection of the broader culture. However, female genital mutilation, honour killings, and other primitive cultural norms, are indeed very common in a number of cultures. |
And yet such things are rare occurences in the West, suggesting that the vast majority of immigrants are more than able to leave the more misguided aspects of their culture behind them. |
Agreed, I don't read about witch killings in the news very often (if ever).
I wonder if bigverne often starts sentences with, "I'm not a racist, BUT..." Followed by very racist, ignorant and/or discriminatory remarks. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| So if some white satanists ritualistically hack and murder someone, is that a reflection on "white culture"? |
No, because such incidents are so rare and unprecendented, they are of no reflection of the broader culture. However, female genital mutilation, honour killings, and other primitive cultural norms, are indeed very common in a number of cultures.
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So serial killers, football hooliganism, "going postal", queer stomping, religious whacko suicide cults, snipers, and on and on are rare and unprecedented in Western society?
So what violence out there in Western societies is indicative of culture? None? |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| let's quit dancing around the real problem and we all know who that is:: The Irish. they will never belong to any society they give all their loyalty to an Italian "holy man" besides being drunk most of the time they often engage in random terror bombings. So besides being drunken crime ridden and a burden on society they are dangerous. They also breed like rats. Once we started letting them in it's been down hill ever since. They even demand their own day and parades and stuff. They want to be seperate but still get all the good stuff from our country. They will never fit in and we should put them on a boat and send them back to Ireland. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| And yet such things are rare occurences in the West |
Are they? Forced marriage, female genital mutilation, and first-cousin marriage, to name but a few, are not 'rare occurences' but fairly prevalent cultural traditions.
| Quote: |
| So serial killers, football hooliganism, "going postal", queer stomping, religious whacko suicide cults, snipers, and on and on are rare and unprecedented in Western society? |
If we are referring to the UK, indeed all of those, with the exception of football hooliganism - though this has now calmed down somewhat - are indeed rare and highly exceptional. Perhaps you should do some research into just how many women are affected by things like forced marriage and female genital mutilation. Neither are any of the cases you mentioned (with the exception of football violence) peculiar to Western culture. Indeed, serial killers occur in cultures all over the world. And, surely you can think of better examples than queer bashing and religious suicide cults, of which one particular (non-Western) religion is a leading light.
Now, if you mentioned shameless drunkeness as a fairly common British cultural malaise, you might be onto something. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| And yet such things are rare occurences in the West |
Are they? Forced marriage, female genital mutilation, and first-cousin marriage, to name but a few, are not 'rare occurences' but fairly prevalent cultural traditions. |
Really? Find me a source citing that such instances happen with any regularity in the West. Anecdotal evidence that they have occurred will not suffice. |
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stilicho25
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Steelrails it is pretty simple. Every culture has its own baggage which results in bad stuff going down. In America it might gun violence. In Africa its witchcraft. In the middle east its the treatment of women. When you move to another country you should be held accountable for bringing that sort of evil to your new home.
Northway how is this?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13957129
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/honourcrimes/crimesofhonour_1.shtml
both articles have government spokesman claiming that each respective problem is serious and growing. Each has an ethnic component. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| And yet such things are rare occurences in the West |
Are they? Forced marriage, female genital mutilation, and first-cousin marriage, to name but a few, are not 'rare occurences' but fairly prevalent cultural traditions. |
Really? Find me a source citing that such instances happen with any regularity in the West. Anecdotal evidence that they have occurred will not suffice. |
From the UK:
It's time to confront this taboo: First cousin marriages in Muslim communities are putting hundreds of children at risk
While British Pakistanis account for three per cent of the births in this country, they are responsible for 33 per cent of the 15,000 to 20,000 children born each year with genetic defects.
The problem is most serious in Bradford. A recent survey of 1,100 pregnant women in the city showed that 70 per cent have husbands who are first cousins � a higher percentage than the average of 50 per cent among Pakistanis across the whole of Britain.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1394119/Its-time-confront-taboo-First-cousin-marriages-Muslim-communities-putting-hundreds-children-risk.html
I would say that 50% of marriages count as 'regular' wouldn't you?
As for FMG:
Some 500 to 2,000 British schoolgirls will be genitally mutilated over the summer holidays. Some will be taken abroad, others will be "cut" or circumcised and sewn closed here in the UK by women already living here or who are flown in and brought to "cutting parties" for a few girls at a time in a cost-saving exercise.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/jul/25/female-circumcision-children-british-law
Forced marriage
There are at least 5,000 to 8,000 cases of forced marriage in England every year but it is impossible to know the full scale of the problem, according to the Home Office.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/12/forced-marriages-england-number-8000 |
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