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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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 Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
| Now check out any of the demonstrations to do with FTA or whatnot, and ask any of the South Koreans there if they are glad the US has "cultivated" their ally and built "democracy". |
Pretty narrow sampling of Koreans, no?
Perhaps you need to hang out with business ppl and the like to get feel for the other side? |
Actually, no, there is more than a moderate amount of resitance to the FTA amongst Korean citizens, which is why the hardliners had to ram the bill through.
I'm sure certain people who stand to profit from it are all for it, that's not much of a mystery. Neither is the fact that in the end it usually ends up being multinational corporations, as they are the ones who lobby for these type of agreements. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| Stout wrote: |
Now check out any of the demonstrations to do with FTA or whatnot, and ask any of the South Koreans there if they are glad the US has "cultivated" their ally and built "democracy".
The FTA was altered after Lee Myung-bak came to power. |
Actually even before its alteration a majority of Koreans approved of the FTA.
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More than half of Koreans say lawmakers should ratify a landmark free trade agreement with the United States to help boost the nation�s exports that have been battered by the global economic crisis, a survey showed yesterday. In a statement, the Federation of Korean Industries said 55 percent of the 800 adults surveyed wanted the National Assembly to approve the deal with the world�s largest economy, compared with 30.3 percent against it.
Of those who support ratification, 46.2 percent said it would help Korea increase exports in the global recession. Another 23.8 percent said it would damage Korea�s reputation if the National Assembly reject the deal. Yonhap 2009
http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2903009 |
lol. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| Stout wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| That's not really a fair estimation of the situation prior to the fall of the Soviet Union, and the DPRK had already fallen well behind the ROK at that point. |
And it's also not really fair to bomb every single standing building and machine gun/drop napalm on citizens, then put apply a stranglehold through economic sanctions and run massive war games a kilometer or two from shared borders...then you wonder why things haven't developed smoothly...well, take a stroll the next time you're in the UK or the states to a ghetto/slum area, and tell me how smooth things are going there. They're not given adequate access to resources, are also villainized/basically shunned, and live under constant surveillance/threat of attack from the cops...Are u going to complain to someone that they've fallen behind, and don't provide enough opportunities for their people? |
This doesn't respond to my point at all. The North fell behind the ROK in the '70s, despite starting out with a huge head start development wise and receiving a ton of aid from the USSR and, to a lesser extent, China. North Korea built a command and control economy that was entirely dependent on cheap Soviet subsidized fuel, and they have paid the price for that since the USSR fell. Yes, things would probably be better had they had more economic opportunities internationally, but the fragile foundation was laid long before. Leave aside the fact that the country essentially functions as one big female supplier for the Kims and their lackeys. I'm open to recognizing where the US has screwed things up with its meddling, but in the case of North Korea I really don't see it. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
Now check out any of the demonstrations to do with FTA or whatnot, and ask any of the South Koreans there if they are glad the US has "cultivated" their ally and built "democracy".
The FTA was altered after Lee Myung-bak came to power. |
Actually even before its alteration a majority of Koreans approved of the FTA.
| Quote: |
More than half of Koreans say lawmakers should ratify a landmark free trade agreement with the United States to help boost the nation�s exports that have been battered by the global economic crisis, a survey showed yesterday. In a statement, the Federation of Korean Industries said 55 percent of the 800 adults surveyed wanted the National Assembly to approve the deal with the world�s largest economy, compared with 30.3 percent against it.
Of those who support ratification, 46.2 percent said it would help Korea increase exports in the global recession. Another 23.8 percent said it would damage Korea�s reputation if the National Assembly reject the deal. Yonhap 2009
http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2903009 |
lol. |
Having the hardline right-wing Joong Ang Ilbo conduct the survey is like Hitler reporting how Jews feel about him.
Meanwhile in the real world criticism of the agreement and the people who had to ram it through for lack of popular support rages on.
One could also note that the survey you selected was conducted in 2009, when a lot of people still weren't clear about the details of the FTA 
Keep fishing. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| Whether or not the majority of Koreans support the FTA is irrelevant. It's unreasonable for them to expect the US to accept unequal terms of trade. Look no further than the previous tariffs on cars, combined with constantly changing regulations, that have made it pretty much impossible for American car makers to sell their vehicles in Korea. Korea is a developed country now, and I get the impression that most of those protesting the FTA can't see the forest for the trees (and would have protested regardless or whatever changes may or may not have been made). |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| Stout wrote: |
| Having the hardline right-wing Joong Ang Ilbo conduct the survey is like Hitler reporting how Jews feel about him. |
Where's your stats for the majority of koreans being against the fta?
Or proof of the nations ignorance as to what the fta is?
Or for that matter proof that the Koreans did not mean to democratically elect Rhee in 1950?
| northway wrote: |
| Whether or not the majority of Koreans support the FTA is irrelevant. It's unreasonable for them to expect the US to accept unequal terms of trade. Look no further than the previous tariffs on cars, combined with constantly changing regulations, that have made it pretty much impossible for American car makers to sell their vehicles in Korea. Korea is a developed country now, and I get the impression that most of those protesting the FTA can't see the forest for the trees (and would have protested regardless or whatever changes may or may not have been made). |
I was in Taiwan when Korea first signed the FTA. They were jealous and angry because they saw the Koreans had gained an unfair trade advantage. The two countries are strong economic rivals. And they're still trying to sign one with the US.
IMHO Koreans have been spoiled by decades of US commitment. If a significant minority of Koreans are in fact genuinely against the FTA I assume this is based on traditional anti-americanism, ignorance and protectionism. |
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| Stout wrote: |
Having the hardline right-wing Joong Ang Ilbo conduct the survey is like Hitler reporting how Jews feel about him.
Meanwhile in the real world criticism of the agreement and the people who had to ram it through for lack of popular support rages on.
One could also note that the survey you selected was conducted in 2009, when a lot of people still weren't clear about the details of the FTA
Keep fishing. |
Supporting one's own fact by reading the English versions of Joong Ang Ilbo or Chosun ilbo is like supporting Holocaust Denial-ism in Korea. I'm afraid that Junior is acting very similar to a renegade Neo-Nazi fanatic. Please prove me wrong. |
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| Korea is a developed country now, and I get the impression that most of those protesting the FTA can't see the forest for the trees (and would have protested regardless or whatever changes may or may not have been made). |
The FTA was never about international trading in the first place. It's just like NAFTA was never meant to promote healthy trading practices among Mexico, Canada, and the Marxist-Leninist United States of America. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| NohopeSeriously wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
Having the hardline right-wing Joong Ang Ilbo conduct the survey is like Hitler reporting how Jews feel about him.
Meanwhile in the real world criticism of the agreement and the people who had to ram it through for lack of popular support rages on.
One could also note that the survey you selected was conducted in 2009, when a lot of people still weren't clear about the details of the FTA
Keep fishing. |
Supporting one's own fact by reading the English versions of Joong Ang Ilbo or Chosun ilbo is like supporting Holocaust Denial-ism in Korea. I'm afraid that Junior is acting very similar to a renegade Neo-Nazi fanatic. Please prove me wrong. |
Actually you should provide more proof that Chosun Ilbo is the same as quoting white supremacist literature. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| NohopeSeriously wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
Having the hardline right-wing Joong Ang Ilbo conduct the survey is like Hitler reporting how Jews feel about him.
Meanwhile in the real world criticism of the agreement and the people who had to ram it through for lack of popular support rages on.
One could also note that the survey you selected was conducted in 2009, when a lot of people still weren't clear about the details of the FTA
Keep fishing. |
Supporting one's own fact by reading the English versions of Joong Ang Ilbo or Chosun ilbo is like supporting Holocaust Denial-ism in Korea. I'm afraid that Junior is acting very similar to a renegade Neo-Nazi fanatic. Please prove me wrong. |
| Quote: |
| Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies) is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990[2] that has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1." In other words, Godwin observed that, given enough time, in any online discussion�regardless of topic or scope�someone inevitably criticizes some point made in the discussion by comparing it to beliefs held by Hitler and the Nazis. |
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