Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Captain Corea]

You sure do seem to like to exaggerate, Mr Blackcat.

[Adventurer]

[PatrickGHBusan]

[TheUrbanMyth]

[gclancy51]

Wow, as a 24 year old Hagwon teacher in my first year in Korea there's a quite remarkable amount of condescension from other teachers on this thread. Sure there's a large amount of unscrupulous hagwon owners, as well as asinine young teachers without any sense of responsibility, but whats being neglected here is the fact that a majority (at least in my, albeit limited experience) seem to have a rather positive reltionship with their employers.

As regards to this "needing to be said", shouldn't the other case also need to be said?

And one more thing, to all those preposterous comments on employers not meeting up to somebodies specific credentials, please dear god get a larger perspective cultural differences, if you are as employable as you think you are why don't you go back to horrendously failing economies we all come from (bar Ozzies) and see how far that attitude of entitlement gets you?

[Captain Corea]

[Mr. BlackCat]

[gclancy51]

[Zyzyfer]

[crescent]

[Unposter]

I do not profress to be knowledgeable about Korean law and maybe laws have changed but I was always told (admittedly by Korean bosses and often it is worded in the contract this way) that if there is any discrepency between the English and the Korean wording of the contract, the Korean version is always accepted as correct.

There seems to be this grasping at if the Hakwon has treated the FT "fairly" and the FT still runs than it is wrong. Fair enough. But, how often has this happened? Whose side of this story are we to believe? There is so much evidence out there to suggest that many hakwon, maybe even most hakwons, don't treat their employees "fairly" that I think this rare paragon of hakwon fairness deserves to be the "other side" of teaching in Korea.

I think we can do better. And, have even suggested we look at the number of FT success stories. But, I bet very, very few became "successful" only working in hakwons. They may have been stepping stones but, well, honest people know what really go on at most of them.

My own personal experience with hakwons was a daily dose of dishonesty, psychological abuse and manipulation. It was an experience that deeply colored my early perspective of Korea. Fortunately for me, I met some good people and have found that not all of Korea and Koreans are like that. But, from my experience and the experience of many people I know and the stories I have read say that such experiences are rampant in hakwon life.

I personally believe that if Koreans really cared about national branding they would do something about what goes on in many (not all) Korean hakwons. I think they produce a lot of people who leave Korea saying well, not so nice things. Obviously, there are many nice things about Korea. But, if a fair number of people don't experience things outside of hakwon life, they are going to leave with a very bad taste in their mouths.

I get the sense that the Korean government does care some because labor board protections have become much more prominent since I first started here. As far as I can tell things ARE BETTER. But, I do not doubt that there is plenty of bad out there.

[PatrickGHBusan]

That was a very well presented response Unposter. Thanks for posting it.

On Hakwons I would say that "fair" is relative. What I mean is that every person is different and react differently to their work environment. What is fair to someone (ex: being asked to stay longer on occasion) is unfair to another. See what I mean?

The bulk of Hakwons are entry-level jobs of sorts. They typically hire younger applicants (especially those schools that cater to kids). They do not mind the turnover in teachers all that much. They offer market value and teachers take the offers or they do not. Thats the basic reality of it.

Then Korean culture comes into play. More specifically, Korean work culture and this in my experience is the #1 cause for friction between foreign staff and Korean staff/management. Some Korean employers do not get how foreign staff tick and conversly a lot of us have no clue what korean work culture is like and as a result missunderstand a lot of things. Thats a learning experience for both sides and sometimes it happens while other times one side refuses to adapt and bang you got problems.

I worked for a couple of Hakwons when I first came to Korea (even if I was certified, it was my preference initially) and was treated well and fairly by each school. The majority of foreign teachers I knew had a good experience with their hakwons but like me experienced frustrations that come with ANY teaching position! The biggest difference I noticed was that people who had either worked as teachers before or who had held a full time job before coming to Korea were better equipped to deal with issues at work vs inexperienced fresh grads for whom this was the first real experience of full time work that can be demanding.

What I am saying is that while there are some bad hakwons out there (and some are real floating turds) it would be foolish to say most are bad or treat their employees unfairly because frankly speaking that would be a guess. Its also a bad habit by some to extrapolate from their own personal bad experiences and apply a bad judgement to a broader context (ex: my Hakwon cheated me = all hakwon owners are bad).

Now I have known (heck still know many) people who have done exceedingly well working exclusively for Hakwons. They get good pay, decent conditions and are treated fairly (again, whats fair to you may be unfair to me or to the guy you see down the street).

One of my longstanding friends has lived in Seoul for the better part of 13 years. He worked 2 Hakwons in that time. He is still at the second one today. The first one closed when the owner died of cancer and it was not reopened so he moved to another school.

Finally, my perspective on this is clearly affected by my past professional history and personal history. I lived abroad before going to Korea for example. As a full time school teacher in Canada I had a frame of reference when I came to Korea. For example, teaching in Canada involved a lot more grading (heck it was numerous evenings a week) which was done on my own time and not paid extra (no OT). Thats not fair or unfair, its the way it is when you teach! I routinely put in 10-15 hours per week on top of my regulr duties at the school. Why? Because I loved my work and sometimes ModEdit happened. We had to deal with parents (that ate up a lot of time) and most of us created extra-classes to assist students who needed help.

Just saying...fair can be very, very relative!

[TheUrbanMyth]

[corkgirl]

[corkgirl]