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Poltergeist
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
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 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Rteacher wrote: |
| warmachinenkorea wrote: |
| Rteacher wrote: |
My understanding of Vedic spiritual science in this regard is that the souls of animals (and plants) are spiritually equal to the souls embodied in human forms, but the human form is more important than other life forms because only humans have consciousness developed enough to philosophically understand and realize the self beyond the material bodily conception of life.
Animals (and less developed species) progressively transmigrate to higher species until they attain the human form. The spirit-soul is eternal and thus is not slain when the body is slain, but due to karma incurred when in the human form, each individual soul has to remain embodied within a particular species for a karmically predetermined number of breaths. If an animal is killed before its predestined time, it must take birth within the same species again until its time is up.
Generally, humans can survive on vegetarian food but when it becomes a matter of survival, animals (and of course plants) can be killed and eaten with minimal karmic reaction - since the human form of life is the most valuable vehicle for attaining liberation from the evolutionary cycle of repeated births and deaths.
More here ... http://www.stephen-knapp.com/vegetarianism_recommended_in_Vedic_scripture.htm |
So you're a vegetarian because of this religion? |
Yeah - I think that a lot of people (including George Harrison and the rest of the Beatles) were directly/indirectly influenced to become vegetarian when the Hare Krishna movement rapidly spread from the mid-'60s till mid-'70s. Their Higher Taste cook book can be viewed free online...
http://198.66.252.231/col/books/VEG/ht/
http://www.harekrsna.com/practice/prasadam/cookbooks/highertaste.htm#_Toc32894304 |
I think one of the biggest obstacles to overcome with vegetarianism is the religious association with it.
If science, logic, and health played a more influential role, perhaps more people would open their minds to the possibilities of it as a life choice.
As it is...it comes off as a bit of a lunatic fringe cult.
It really is an unfortunate association to have with something that has potential and obvious benefits to the greater good of all living species. |
TCH, sorry if I've misconstrued your post but I'm not sure where you're coming from. Are you saying you don't want to learn about vegetarianism or veganism or consider the ethics of how humans treat other animals, because Rteacher's religious beliefs have put you off? Are you saying you perceive ISKCON (sp?) as the main representative of "vegetarianism," and you're boycotting the food because you don't like the people? And you think most people follow the same methodology as you when making moral decisions?
If so I disagree 110 percent ... more people are opening their minds to these ideas, and not just religious people. Rteacher is a nice person but I'm very much against the values he stands for. Science and ethics are two different areas of knowledge, and the links I posted come from ethical people who are very careful and responsible in the statements they make. They don't make exaggerated claims about health or nutrition or say anything about those subjects that they can't back up with a mountain of evidence. I'm sorry if the Dave's community is incapable of appreciating credible links when it sees them. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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ouch...misconstrued would be a good call on that. I am not saying anything of the kind at all.
damn...this is the off topic forum but suddenly feels like the current events forum. My mistake for not being more careful with my choice of words Poltergeist.
I am saying that I don't like that vegetarianism gets associated with religious ideology. Period.
I am saying that when most people think about vegetarians...they think about lunatic fringe cults...and the religious nature associated with vegetarianism is part of that problem. Like the separation of church and state...keep health and nutrition separate from religion.
I am a supporter of health and nutrition...not religion.
Period. |
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Poltergeist
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:19 am Post subject: |
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Sorry to have misconstrued you in that case ... I'm not religious either, but I can see why religions that emphasize nonviolence would encourage veganism. I wish ISKCON--and all other religions, and good people everywhere who aren't religious--would acknowledge the violence of dairy production and do the same. Another big problem I have with Rteacher's links is that some of them do deal with nutrition but the nutrition-related sections draw on unreliable, questionable and outdated sources rather than the latest and most credible sources.
I'm not out to prove Rteacher is wrong about god/s and the afterlife, and it doesn't bother me that some people want to change their diets and lifestyles for religious reasons, but morality =/= religion. It's not necessary to believe in a god/dess or god/desses to want to save animals. And everyone deserves to be supported in making changes in a healthy way regardless of whether they're religious or not. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
Here's my response to why do you eat meat:
It tastes DELICIOUS! |
A vegetarian friend of mine with a sense of humor had a T-shirt he often wore that went:
"Meat is murder!
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Tasty, tasty murder." |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
ouch...misconstrued would be a good call on that. I am not saying anything of the kind at all.
damn...this is the off topic forum but suddenly feels like the current events forum. My mistake for not being more careful with my choice of words Poltergeist.
I am saying that I don't like that vegetarianism gets associated with religious ideology. Period.
I am saying that when most people think about vegetarians...they think about lunatic fringe cults...and the religious nature associated with vegetarianism is part of that problem. Like the separation of church and state...keep health and nutrition separate from religion.
I am a supporter of health and nutrition...not religion.
Period. |
Who are these "most people"? All of my vegetarian friends are either atheists, animal lovers, doing it for their health, or a mix of those reasons. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| So what's your point? |
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pedrotaves
Joined: 02 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| So what's your point? |
that there really isn't a huge stigma of religion attached to vegetarianism. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| pedrotaves wrote: |
| Quote: |
| So what's your point? |
that there really isn't a huge stigma of religion attached to vegetarianism. |
Indeed. This is the first I've ever heard of it. |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| pedrotaves wrote: |
| Quote: |
| So what's your point? |
that there really isn't a huge stigma of religion attached to vegetarianism. |
My question would by why there is any "stigma" at all attached to not eating meat. Its a personal decision. Yet some omnivores, in my experience, interpret my choice as a personal affront. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| pedrotaves wrote: |
| Quote: |
| So what's your point? |
that there really isn't a huge stigma of religion attached to vegetarianism. |
Indeed. This is the first I've ever heard of it. |
The first you�ve ever heard of it�really�the first?
This thread was started by RTeacher�who is emphasizing that very point.
Perhaps you should get out more.
| Rteacher wrote: |
| Yeah - I think that a lot of people (including George Harrison and the rest of the Beatles) were directly/indirectly influenced to become vegetarian when the Hare Krishna movement rapidly spread from the mid-'60s till mid-'70s |
Schwa...I hear you...and basically that is what I am trying to sort out as well.
People who are not vegetarians....often feel affronted by vegetarians.
Why?
My point was that "when most people think about vegetarians...they think about lunatic fringe cults...and the religious nature associated with vegetarianism is part of that problem."
If I mention that I prefer not to eat meat...for health reasons alone...their eyes still roll as if to say they know I have some other agenda at hand.
But others obviously disagree.
Have to be honest though...reading this thread...it is pretty easy to see what non-vegetarians are getting at.  |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| pedrotaves wrote: |
| Quote: |
| So what's your point? |
that there really isn't a huge stigma of religion attached to vegetarianism. |
Indeed. This is the first I've ever heard of it. |
The first you�ve ever heard of it�really�the first?
This thread was started by RTeacher�who is emphasizing that very point.
Perhaps you should get out more.
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The first I've heard that most people think there is "a huge stigma of religion attached to vegetarianism." Sure, some, but most? Come on. I've been asked once if not eating meat had something to do with religion. Once. I've been vegetarian (with the exception of about 6 months) since I was a teenager.
Perhaps you should try getting out more. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| The first I've heard that most people think there is "a huge stigma of religion attached to vegetarianism." |
...but I didn't write that...pedrotaves did.
This is what I wrote...twice now.
My point was that "when most people think about vegetarians...they think about lunatic fringe cults...and the religious nature associated with vegetarianism is part of that problem."
But again...what is your point?
The use of the word (most)?
I have done no in depth studies on the subject and can easily concede that point. I will allow others to draw from their own personal observations as well, but from my personal observations...most everyone who is not a veggie only lover has some angst with vegetarians.
...obviously there is a real and vocal (some)...so much so in fact that the vegetarians have taken to creating offensive bingo cards...which I personally thought was quite humorous. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:26 am Post subject: |
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The Cosmic Hun is right. Like it or not, vegetarianism is associated with a certain kind of person, and it's people like Rteacher that are the face of it. It's associated with hippies, animal rights activists, religious freaks, and extreme environmentals who smell bad. The kind of people who have no middle ground and like to preach, but only likeminded people are listening. Even in this bingo card there's something dripping of self-righteousness in it.
This is not to say all vegetarians are like this, so spare me the stories of your friends. I'm saying this is the face of vegetarianism. I personally believe there is lots of scientific evidence for both health and environmental reasons that people should at least consider being weekday vegetarians or reducing their meat consumption and I've taken those steps myself. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| The first I've heard that most people think there is "a huge stigma of religion attached to vegetarianism." |
...but I didn't write that...pedrotaves did.
This is what I wrote...twice now.
My point was that "when most people think about vegetarians...they think about lunatic fringe cults...and the religious nature associated with vegetarianism is part of that problem."
But again...what is your point?
The use of the word (most)?
I have done no in depth studies on the subject and can easily concede that point. I will allow others to draw from their own personal observations as well, but from my personal observations...most everyone who is not a veggie only lover has some angst with vegetarians.
...obviously there is a real and vocal (some)...so much so in fact that the vegetarians have taken to creating offensive bingo cards...which I personally thought was quite humorous. |
You wrote this:
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
I think one of the biggest obstacles to overcome with vegetarianism is the religious association with it.
If science, logic, and health played a more influential role, perhaps more people would open their minds to the possibilities of it as a life choice.
As it is...it comes off as a bit of a lunatic fringe cult. |
This is about what you said. Nobody else. As it is, I've said my point more than once. There's nothing else to say unless I want to start repeating myself. Have a lovely Sunday. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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