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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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DanseurVertical
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:18 am Post subject: how about today? |
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On a few occasions I've had native Koreans ask me this question in the sense of, 'How is the day?'
Is this used in some English dialects? I found it odd and at first didn't understand. I thought it may be first language interference, but I wonder now if the expression is used in some regions by native English speakers. |
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chasmmi
Joined: 16 Jun 2007 Location: Ulsan
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:32 am Post subject: |
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There are a number of words and phrases I come across large numbers of Koreans using in English which are either odd or flat out wrong English yet everyone seems to have learnt it.
Some things that come to mind that mass overuse of Continuous tense, the word thing and some adjectives such as Delicious, strange, funny and impossible.
I do enjoy being told that something is 'a little bit impossible thing'.
It would be interesting to know if the mass inaccuracies are down to students being universally mistaught a phrase meaning, if poor interpretations in dictionaries are to blame, maybe people are speaking in literal translation or some other factor.
Would also like to know if there are any Incorrect/odd Korean phrases that a significant percent of us are obliviously using in our Korean. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:34 am Post subject: |
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A lot of their books teach expressions that aren't used properly or aren't very common or are just vague. Because we can often get the general gist of the question, we rarely correct them and on and on it goes. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:37 am Post subject: |
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chasmmi wrote: |
It would be interesting to know if the mass inaccuracies are down to students being universally mistaught a phrase meaning, if poor interpretations in dictionaries are to blame, maybe people are speaking in literal translation or some other factor.
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Yes, yes, and yes. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:00 am Post subject: |
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If it results in their creating their own brand of English which is communicative/intelligible to foreigners, more power to'em. |
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DanseurVertical
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:11 am Post subject: |
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Mix1 wrote: |
A lot of their books teach expressions that aren't used properly or aren't very common or are just vague. Because we can often get the general gist of the question, we rarely correct them and on and on it goes. |
The textbooks my students used in this last year (especially as complexity increases) were (allegedly) authored primarily by native English speakers. Yet for example, students are still taught to use "You had better..." as a way of giving advice or making a suggestion. After noticing an exam question that tested for this expression, I explained to my school's KETs that this is used to warn or admonish, usually by native English speakers without much education.
When I ask KETs to help me with Korean, they typically attempt to provide direct translations, rather than explaining the situations in which the given word / expression is appropriate. For example, early on an admittedly lazy, selfish co-teacher taught me that 제발요 means 'please'. And well, it does, but in a sense that's rarely used in English. I think that direct translation methods are how KETs were taught themselves, and unfortunately, it's not particularly useful for teaching across English and Korean. And it's one reason most my 3rd grade middle school students graduated without realizing that '...주세요' is NOT equivalent to 'Give me...' |
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DanseurVertical
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Stout wrote: |
If it results in their creating their own brand of English which is communicative/intelligible to foreigners, more power to'em. |
Totally, I agree. And when English speakers from Singapore, for example, communicate with me very well but in sometimes unusual ways, I'm okay with it. I understand it.
But my point was, I originally did not understand the expression. To me at first, it sounded like a form of suggestion for making a plan. By the time I'd heard it from three different people I knew what the person meant and politely responded, 'You mean, how is today?' |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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A lot of strange English comes from dictionary translation. In Korean certain things are often implied, or dropped when speaking casually. So when they run it through a dictionary there is even less chance of it making sense.
In this case, they'll often casually say to someone:
하루 어떤가요?
하루 - day, not today, just a day. It's implied that it means today today, or "your day"
어떻다 - means "be like" or "be how" or "how about"
This is often used in the sense of "How was your day?" or "how is your day going?"
but when directly translated there isn't much there to fill in the blanks for someone who is using a dictionary. All they've got is:
"how about today?"
I sometimes hear:
"How is your today?" |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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DanseurVertical wrote: |
Stout wrote: |
If it results in their creating their own brand of English which is communicative/intelligible to foreigners, more power to'em. |
Totally, I agree. And when English speakers from Singapore, for example, communicate with me very well but in sometimes unusual ways, I'm okay with it. I understand it.
But my point was, I originally did not understand the expression. To me at first, it sounded like a form of suggestion for making a plan. By the time I'd heard it from three different people I knew what the person meant and politely responded, 'You mean, how is today?' |
Just curious here (not arguing): you just agreed more power to them if they create their own brand of English, but in the end you had to correct them because the meaning wasn't clear. So are we going to say, "More power to them" and let them use any expression they want? (Because you didn't understand the meaning in context, I'm guessing in this case the answer is no.)
I don't think we should be flexible when the brand of English was in part created from mistranslations and misunderstandings. Some flexibility is ok, but I wonder how much flexibility is granted to people learning Korean (or other languages)? Probably very little.
In Korean, it's their way or the highway. If you even change one slight vowel sound or intonation by even 5% from the norm, they often can't understand you, but here we are letting them change whole expressions (while not understanding them) and then saying more power to 'em. Hmm.
For the native English speakers "authoring" those textbooks, you've got to wonder how much input they really had on the final product. Imagine Korean management style and apply it to textbook publishing and you can probably think of some of the issues already. The native speakers are on the lowest rung of the ladder, there are constant changes made to the projects, little planning or communication, and tight deadlines where speed is more important than good content.
I did some writing and editing here for a short time, and it was always a battle. Everything you did had to be approved and checked by the Korean staff with varied English ability. Sometimes they didn't agree and would just override the input or content of the native speaker and print the awkward expressions anyway, because that's how THEY always learned what was "correct". So it's just one long cycle of error. A few times, the final editors (with poor English skills) even printed the wrong, unedited version of the content, after everyone had put in countless hours of content and editing. |
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DanseurVertical
Joined: 24 Nov 2010
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Mix1 wrote: |
DanseurVertical wrote: |
Stout wrote: |
If it results in their creating their own brand of English which is communicative/intelligible to foreigners, more power to'em. |
Totally, I agree. And when English speakers from Singapore, for example, communicate with me very well but in sometimes unusual ways, I'm okay with it. I understand it.
But my point was, I originally did not understand the expression. To me at first, it sounded like a form of suggestion for making a plan. By the time I'd heard it from three different people I knew what the person meant and politely responded, 'You mean, how is today?' |
Just curious here (not arguing): you just agreed more power to them if they create their own brand of English, but in the end you had to correct them because the meaning wasn't clear. So are we going to say, "More power to them" and let them use any expression they want? (Because you didn't understand the meaning in context, I'm guessing in this case the answer is no.) |
No, I was suggesting that if the meaning is generally clear, then it's (probably) okay to me.
But I would not in general suggest that at this point, Korean English speakers are generally capable of creating their own mutually intelligible dialect of English. That's because the English ability level of Korean English speakers is generally much too low. This means (I imagine, anyway) that less severe deviations from some American or British standard would contribute to the overall confusion. If, however, in a multilingual society like Singapore there emerged some English expression that North American or British speakers found unusual but could understand by context, I think it's chauvinistic for the North American or British speaker to attempt to revise or correct the expression.
In cases of Korean (or Chinese or Japanese) speakers inventing their own English expressions that are unusual but generally clear to native speakers (e.g. happy mind / depressed mind), I think it's cool. It makes their dialect a little unique in a way that enriches English and doesn't interfere with communication.
My thoughts, anyway. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0

Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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I think it sounds poetic. As long as communication is achieved, it's great. If a native speaker said it, I'd wonder about it. |
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Landros

Joined: 19 Oct 2007
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:14 pm Post subject: wasting time |
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Most Koreans think English is just a Translation of Korean. they just want the English word for stuff they say in Korea. We don't say "work hard" when leaving and we don't say "Help yourself" before eating. You can't learn a language without the culture. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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English, like its counterparts, is a living language, and if it aspires to continue to be the best candidate for a future global language, it ought to be malleable to local tastes.
It ought to reflect and respect a given people's right to shape it the way they want (or how it ends up being shaped, however the case the may be).
No doubt the Queen wasn't too pleased when the North American uncouth ingrates adapted English to their tastes, but that was just tough cookies for her.
Similarly, we should make allowances for other peoples to bring their flavor (mistakes/mistranslations are often part of the process) to the mix, so long as we can understand them at the end of the day. |
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jpe
Joined: 15 Aug 2011 Location: Seoul, SK
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="DanseurVertical"]
Mix1 wrote: |
. And it's one reason most my 3rd grade middle school students graduated without realizing that '...주세요' is NOT equivalent to 'Give me...' |
Heh. I remember teaching in a private Kindergarten and the KET was holding pictures of food and getting the students to say "Give me a _____!" It's one of the most poignant moments I've experienced in this country |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010 Location: Victoria, Canada.
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: wasting time |
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Landros wrote: |
Most Koreans think English is just a Translation of Korean. .. we don't say "Help yourself" before eating. You can't learn a language without the culture. |
This one really bothers me. It isn't even a proper translation.
많이 드세요= "many" "eat" or "eat a lot"
Their usage is like a mother to a child, when the mother thinks the child is old enough to feed itself. |
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