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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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 Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
I imagine if they required a TESOL for NET's they'll have to raise wages. |
A 120 hour online certificate is worth how much then? A quick TESOL cert can be done very inexpensively and quickly. I would think that having at least the modicum of knowledge that this could potentially offer a NET may first offer them some training to do their job (which many cannot, a factor in this discussion) and second, having this minimum qualification may actually make threads like this less common.
However, those of you who subscribe to the sentiment above keep thinking that Koreans owe you something for simply being born in an English-speaking country. Most jobs in Korea are filled by essentially unskilled labor. Get some training, get some pride in your everyday actions which have your name stamped all over them. |
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Guajiro
Joined: 04 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| I imagine if they required a TESOL for NET's they'll have to raise wages. As far as fluent bilingual Koreans go, I highly doubt they'll put up with the crap that NET's put up with for the salaries that they get, not to mention most of them don't come back from the anglosphere. |
What I've been told by recruiters is that as of 2012 public school NETs in Korea will need to have either a degree in Education, English or English Lit., a 100-Hour TESOL Certificate or one year of previous teaching experience. I think the minimum salary jumped slightly (up one notch on the pay scale) to 2 million KRW. Basically "level 3" was eliminated, "level 2" now being the minimum. |
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english puppet
Joined: 04 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| Carbon wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
I imagine if they required a TESOL for NET's they'll have to raise wages. |
A 120 hour online certificate is worth how much then? A quick TESOL cert can be done very inexpensively and quickly. I would think that having at least the modicum of knowledge that this could potentially offer a NET may first offer them some training to do their job (which many cannot, a factor in this discussion) and second, having this minimum qualification may actually make threads like this less common.
However, those of you who subscribe to the sentiment above keep thinking that Koreans owe you something for simply being born in an English-speaking country. Most jobs in Korea are filled by essentially unskilled labor. Get some training, get some pride in your everyday actions which have your name stamped all over them. |
No argument w/ your overall point.
I think it was only this year that SMOE/EPIK hit an 80% level of TESOL certification. Quite a bit lower even recently. To a degree I think they've set the standard and then the wages that got people on a plane.
Maybe it's coincidence or just who I gravitate to but most of the NET"s I talk with seem quite sincere and interested in doing a good job. In any case, I'm not hearing people feel owed anything? If I hear anything it's that quite a few a certain animosity from some of their co-teachers and a system that's hard to be effective in. Frankly, at some point, I think people start throwing in the towel. |
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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| You make a good point and thanks for the information about certifications. I wasn't aware of that. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| Carbon wrote: |
| english puppet wrote: |
Interesting - thanks for sharing the info. I'll check it out. |
D�rnyei is much more relevant. Gardner's work was indeed focused on Canada, which is ESL, in a strict sense. Here in Korea, we are in an EFL environment and while many may argue that this is splitting hairs, they are very different concepts. Immersion (or exposure) is the low hanging fruit.
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/english/people/zoltan.dornyei |
Yes, of course. The learning context in South Korea is definitely not ESL, despite the fact that some, including the government, have called for English to become an official language here.
I've read quite a few of D�rnyei's papers, as a matter of fact. I'm particularly interested in the research he conducted in Hungary. I have 4 or 5 of his books and and I should receive another one next week. |
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AsiaESLbound
Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Location: Truck Stop Missouri
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| This situation has more to do with a breakdown in communication leading to undesirable international relations on the local level in schools and cities. The reason why my public school were satisfied and happy with me was I realized building rapport with them from month 4 to month 12 was key to succeeding as a NET. While I made every attempt to do a good job teaching as an inexperienced non-certified teacher who was the only foreigner in my school, it's true most students didn't understand what I was saying, but most students liked me very much on account of my positive can-do attitude, gestures, singing, and activities. What determines satisfaction in most work situations is not just how effective you are, but how you handle relations. I'm a firm believer that relations between the FET's and Korea aren't good based on the impressions I seen in real life and on this web site. This situation has little to do with teaching ability though I'm guessing there are many putting forth little effort for another country's kids mean little compared to our own while others are doing well. Another problem is most adults don't know nor embrace English so they know little about their kids' progress, but only go on how their kids express feelings about their English teachers. There clearly is a lack of professional support for FET's and a lack of oversight to support everyone's interests. |
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english puppet
Joined: 04 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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"Yes, of course. The learning context in South Korea is definitely not ESL, despite the fact that some, including the government, have called for English to become an official language here. "
Another really interesting point. It's something of a conflict here isn't it - the ESL reality vs. an EFL expectation (on some level). |
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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| english puppet wrote: |
Another really interesting point. It's something of a conflict here isn't it - the ESL reality vs. an EFL expectation (on some level). |
Sure. Koreans expect the results that are more likely/plausible from an ESL environment, but must live with the reality of their EFL. I have to say "their" because Korean EFL is its' own brand of quirky. There are so many social/cultural/political issues that stand between them and fluency. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Guajiro wrote: |
| What I've been told by recruiters is that as of 2012 public school NETs in Korea will need to have either a degree in Education, English or English Lit., a 100-Hour TESOL Certificate or one year of previous teaching experience. |
If true.. then that is very welcome.
But they still didn't go far enough. |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| It's interesting how they list those as separate ways to fill the requirement when one takes 4 years, one takes, one year and the other takes a month and costs $100 dollars. They really are not that serious yet guys. |
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english puppet
Joined: 04 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Carbon wrote: |
| english puppet wrote: |
Another really interesting point. It's something of a conflict here isn't it - the ESL reality vs. an EFL expectation (on some level). |
Sure. Koreans expect the results that are more likely/plausible from an ESL environment, but must live with the reality of their EFL. I have to say "their" because Korean EFL is its' own brand of quirky. There are so many social/cultural/political issues that stand between them and fluency. |
Yeah, absolutely. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
| It's interesting how they list those as separate ways to fill the requirement when one takes 4 years, one takes, one year and the other takes a month and costs $100 dollars. They really are not that serious yet guys. |
They're just looking for ways to slim down the number of applications to process. |
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english puppet
Joined: 04 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
| It's interesting how they list those as separate ways to fill the requirement when one takes 4 years, one takes, one year and the other takes a month and costs $100 dollars. They really are not that serious yet guys. |
They're just looking for ways to slim down the number of applications to process. |
I think what lik's point is is that the actual "criteria" is all over the place. Maybe not..... |
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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:14 am Post subject: |
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haha, i love how everyone is taking it apart here.
Alot of people still cant speak English because of themselves! I speak Korean, and did it myself..I dont blame the teachers I had, or the people I talk to, or Korea!
Korea, with all of its face saving, blames EVERYONE else. Everyone knows playing the victim is the party line here. Google it.
As long as Im employed and working, thats fine. If my kids learn something, great! I hope they learn a lot, I give them a lot to do.
They can say anything they want, but as long as Im working and theyre not trying to kill me, Im ok. Whine away. Im going to do something pro-active. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| Carbon wrote: |
| english puppet wrote: |
Another really interesting point. It's something of a conflict here isn't it - the ESL reality vs. an EFL expectation (on some level). |
Sure. Koreans expect the results that are more likely/plausible from an ESL environment, but must live with the reality of their EFL. I have to say "their" because Korean EFL is its' own brand of quirky. There are so many social/cultural/political issues that stand between them and fluency. |
Do people really expect ESL-like fluency and the cultural "integrativeness" that comes with it? I'm not convinced that's what motivates most Korean English learners. After all, Koreans are very much Korean, probably more so than we are American, Australian, or Canadian.
You might want to examine the roles played by English in South Korea. Some researchers have argued/concluded that it's just another means for the elite to maintain their position of power.
Whether you agree with the assertion or not, when you ask university students why they study English, or rather why they would like to improve their English skills, the resounding answer is to get higher TOEIC scores in order to secure a better job. And so, some have argued that English has closed far more doors to South Korean job seekers than it has opened.
I recommend you read up on "linguistic imperialism" if this is an interesting topic to you. |
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