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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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 Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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A quick googling of the neighborhoods you mentioned, and I came up with this. Could not find exact stats for Cass Corridor, so we'll have to use Detroit as a whole for comparative purposes:
Breathitt County, KY, violent crime, on a scale from 1 (low crime) to 10, is 1. Violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. The US average is 4.
Breathitt County, KY, property crime, on a scale from 1 (low) to 10, is 3. Property crime includes the offenses of burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson. The object of the theft-type offenses is the taking of money or property, but there is no force or threat of force against the victims. The US average is 4.
http://www.bestplaces.net/crime/county/kentucky/breathitt
Detroit, MI, violent crime, on a scale from 1 (low crime) to 10, is 10. Violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. The US average is 4.
Detroit, MI, property crime, on a scale from 1 (low) to 10, is 8. Property crime includes the offenses of burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson. The object of the theft-type offenses is the taking of money or property, but there is no force or threat of force against the victims. The US average is 4.
http://www.bestplaces.net/crime/city/michigan/detroit
Maybe Detroit is in no way representative of Cass Corridor, but compared to Detroit, the overwhelming white and poor Breathitt County looks relatively safe. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| But I agree with you that immigration should be based on a very strict criteria of whether someone is qualified to work in a country. If this was strictly enforced, and the asylum system reformed, it would have the effect of reducing immigration from such countries to close to zero. |
I would argue that most of the immigrants coming from Africa are qualified to do the menial jobs that they're allowed to do (and make things cheaper for the rest of us in the process).
| Udo wrote: |
| Waters also discussed the ANC centenary: �Happy 100th year anniversary to @MyANC_. You (sic) job is not done� but, a job well done in the past 100 years� You will rule till the rapture�. |
I see issues here that extend beyond race. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I would argue that most of the immigrants coming from Africa are qualified to do the menial jobs that they're allowed to do (and make things cheaper for the rest of us in the process). |
Yes, but the whole point is that we do not need poor, unskilled, uneducated immigrants, particularly when we have huge numbers of unemployed. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
A quick googling of the neighborhoods you mentioned, and I came up with this. Could not find exact stats for Cass Corridor, so we'll have to use Detroit as a whole for comparative purposes:
Breathitt County, KY, violent crime, on a scale from 1 (low crime) to 10, is 1. Violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. The US average is 4.
Breathitt County, KY, property crime, on a scale from 1 (low) to 10, is 3. Property crime includes the offenses of burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson. The object of the theft-type offenses is the taking of money or property, but there is no force or threat of force against the victims. The US average is 4.
http://www.bestplaces.net/crime/county/kentucky/breathitt
Detroit, MI, violent crime, on a scale from 1 (low crime) to 10, is 10. Violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. The US average is 4.
Detroit, MI, property crime, on a scale from 1 (low) to 10, is 8. Property crime includes the offenses of burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson. The object of the theft-type offenses is the taking of money or property, but there is no force or threat of force against the victims. The US average is 4.
http://www.bestplaces.net/crime/city/michigan/detroit
Maybe Detroit is in no way representative of Cass Corridor, but compared to Detroit, the overwhelming white and poor Breathitt County looks relatively safe. |
Well Breathitt was mentioned because of a personal friend of mine who grew up and lived there and also lived near Detroit and he said the two places were quite comparable. Now why there is a discrepancy, I don't know, but based on what he has said, he mentioned that things wouldn't often go to the police because the police there were so corrupt. That and people just liked to handle things privately. I should also mention that he is uhm, not the most favorably disposed to non-whites, so I don't sense an agenda in his life story.
Basically my point at the beginning and in the end is that we need to be careful with this whole blaming a certain thing a someone's culture when it could be that the people are just plain bad people.
Some people are so quick to jump on culture as the reason. But when someone of their own ilk does something, they quickly dismiss it as just they are a "lone nut". Let's apply the same standard to people everywhere. This incident happened not because they were Congolose, but because they were violent Congolese religious nutcases. |
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Binch Lover
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| I was asking why on earth is the UK, and other Western nations, allowing in such large numbers of people who will almost certainly end up being an economic burden, and who bring with them such primitive cultural baggage. |
I'm not going to address the "primitive cultural baggage" issue, because it's just far too loaded.
However, the assumption that immigrants are an economic burden has repeatedly been shown to be false.
http://www.economist.com/node/1200834
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| Most economists agree there will be modest gains. �On the whole the economic impact of immigration is broadly neutral to mildly positive,� says John Salt of the migration research unit at University College London (UCL). |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Binch Lover wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| I was asking why on earth is the UK, and other Western nations, allowing in such large numbers of people who will almost certainly end up being an economic burden, and who bring with them such primitive cultural baggage. |
I'm not going to address the "primitive cultural baggage" issue, because it's just far too loaded.
However, the assumption that immigrants are an economic burden has repeatedly been shown to be false.
http://www.economist.com/node/1200834
| Quote: |
| Most economists agree there will be modest gains. �On the whole the economic impact of immigration is broadly neutral to mildly positive,� says John Salt of the migration research unit at University College London (UCL). |
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One might ask the question of who exactly stands to "gain". |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| However, the assumption that immigrants are an economic burden has repeatedly been shown to be false. |
Depends entirely on what studies you look at, and as already stated, I am not only concerned with economic benefits. That aside, though immigration may well boost overall GDP, it is likely to have a negigible effect on GDP per capita. Moreover, these studies lump the German banker, Polish construction worker, Indian IT engineer, an African refugee together. Clearly, some immigrants help to boost growth and prosperity, others are a net drain on the economy.
Mass immigration largely benefits two groups: immigrants themselves and the rich that employ them. It is of no benefit whatsoever to the working and middle classes. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| It is of no benefit whatsoever to the working and middle classes. |
Yeah, all those Irish, Eye-talians, Chinese, Indians, Latinos, Polish, Russians, Germans, and Scandinavians were a real drag for us in the States.
Oh and bigverne, guess which people in the U.S. have the highest percentage of the population receiving a college degree? I'll give you a hint: It ain't whites or Asians. That's right, it's African immigrants. They also have over the double the rate of graduate degrees compared to the white population.
So yes, I think we've benefited tremendously from African immigrants. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Bigverne seems to be approaching this from a British perspective. In my experience, Europeans and general and Brits in particular seem a lot more concerned with immigrants causing the downfall of their culture than are Canadians and Americans. You don't meet too many educated North Americans spouting off about immigrants ruining everything (probably because our universities are full of immigrants), while I've met a disproportionate number of educated Brits who felt that way. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| It is of no benefit whatsoever to the working and middle classes. |
Yeah, all those Irish, Eye-talians, Chinese, Indians, Latinos, Polish, Russians, Germans, and Scandinavians were a real drag for us in the States.
Oh and bigverne, guess which people in the U.S. have the highest percentage of the population receiving a college degree? I'll give you a hint: It ain't whites or Asians. That's right, it's African immigrants. They also have over the double the rate of graduate degrees compared to the white population.
So yes, I think we've benefited tremendously from African immigrants. |
I am talking about present mass immigration to the UK, which is of no benefit to the average man in the street. You can't compare it to immigration that occured a century ago in a newly industrializing and largely empty continental nation. Anyway, in the states, the problem is not the relatively small numbers of African immigrants (who probably have to meet strict requirements) but the millions of Mexicans who continue to pour into the country. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Anyway, in the states, the problem is not the relatively small numbers of African immigrants (who probably have to meet strict requirements) but the millions of Mexicans who continue to pour into the country. |
Actually, illegal Mexican immigration has declined markedly due to the recession in the States, a much improved Mexican economy, and significantly lower birthrates over the last twenty to thirty years than there were previously. See below:
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| The extraordinary Mexican migration that delivered millions of illegal immigrants to the United States over the past 30 years has sputtered to a trickle, and research points to a surprising cause: unheralded changes in Mexico that have made staying home more attractive. |
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| Here in the red-earth highlands of Jalisco, one of Mexico�s top three states for emigration over the past century, a new dynamic has emerged. For a typical rural family like the Orozcos, heading to El Norte without papers is no longer an inevitable rite of passage. Instead, their homes are filling up with returning relatives; older brothers who once crossed illegally are awaiting visas; and the youngest Orozcos are staying put. |
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The decline in illegal immigration, from a country responsible for roughly 6 of every 10 illegal immigrants in the United States, is stark. The Mexican census recently discovered four million more people in Mexico than had been projected, which officials attributed to a sharp decline in emigration.
American census figures analyzed by the nonpartisan Pew Hispanic Center also show that the illegal Mexican population in the United States has shrunk and that fewer than 100,000 illegal border-crossers and visa-violators from Mexico settled in the United States in 2010, down from about 525,000 annually from 2000 to 2004. Although some advocates for more limited immigration argue that the Pew studies offer estimates that do not include short-term migrants, most experts agree that far fewer illegal immigrants have been arriving in recent years. |
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/07/06/world/americas/immigration.html |
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jaj
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:15 am Post subject: |
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But there's so much spin around immigration in the U.S. One thing that the liberals who defend unchecked immigration never admit, is how racist immigrants themselves are and how little regard they have for issues of social justice beyond the rights of their own individual groups.
I don't know how many immigrant cab drivers I've had in the US make racist rants as they drive through the black south side of town. There's a disturbing disconnect between immigrants and the civil rights principles that have enabled them to live and work in the US that points to a one dimensional opportunism that supports the most dog eat dog economic agenda and that's about it.
All the mini-success narratives about people who arrived in the United States with no shoes on their feet will always subtly steal the fire from idealistic young people with a much deeper definition of home, calling to occupy Wall Street. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| jaj wrote: |
But there's so much spin around immigration in the U.S. One thing that the liberals who defend unchecked immigration never admit, is how racist immigrants themselves are and how little regard they have for issues of social justice beyond the rights of their own individual groups.
I don't know how many immigrant cab drivers I've had in the US make racist rants as they drive through the black south side of town. There's a disturbing disconnect between immigrants and the civil rights principles that have enabled them to live and work in the US that points to a one dimensional opportunism that supports the most dog eat dog economic agenda and that's about it.
All the mini-success narratives about people who arrived in the United States with no shoes on their feet will always subtly steal the fire from idealistic young people with a much deeper definition of home, calling to occupy Wall Street. |
U do make some good points about the reality of how a lot of immigrants. However, they're also doing these things to survive in the dog-eat-dog system, which includes putting down other social groups, as that's the norm already in-place. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| Binch Lover wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| I was asking why on earth is the UK, and other Western nations, allowing in such large numbers of people who will almost certainly end up being an economic burden, and who bring with them such primitive cultural baggage. |
I'm not going to address the "primitive cultural baggage" issue, because it's just far too loaded.
However, the assumption that immigrants are an economic burden has repeatedly been shown to be false.
http://www.economist.com/node/1200834
| Quote: |
| Most economists agree there will be modest gains. �On the whole the economic impact of immigration is broadly neutral to mildly positive,� says John Salt of the migration research unit at University College London (UCL). |
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It really depends on the education level of the immigrants who arrive. Immigrants with a college degree? Net gain to the tax base. Immigrants with a graduate degree? Definite net gain to the tax base, plus other intangible gains. Immigrants without remedial schooling? Usually a drain on social welfare systems. |
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Enrico Palazzo
Mod Team
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:35 pm Post subject: Re: Tales of Vibrant Cultural Diversity |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
Boy, 15, 'tortured to death with hammer and chisels on Christmas Day because relative thought he was a witch'
He suffered 101 separate injuries as he was attacked with weapons including metal poles, pliers, knives, a hammer and heavy ceramic tiles.
His sister and her boyfriend, both 28, are accused of beating him to death because they believed he had been possessed by evil spirits.
Prosecutor Brian Altman QC said the defendants were responsible for �unspeakable savagery� over four days in the locked eighth-floor flat. Those involved were originally from the Congo where �kindoki� witchcraft pervades society, he said.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2082618/Kristy-Bamu-15-tortured-death-witch-claim-Christmas-Day-Newham.html |
We don't want to see you here again. Your avatar is objectionable. You're using a real person, and the image is doctored. This violates the TOS. |
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