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duke of new york
Joined: 23 Jan 2011
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 Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
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| I just don't see a day trip to China or Japan being an efficient use of your time and money. |
Because it's not a day trip? I mean it is if you try to categorize it like that, but then that's just intentionally misleading. A day trip is normally categorized as being a trip where you leave in the morning and return at night.
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Sorry, I didn't mean to say it was an actual "day trip." I just meant to emphasize the fact that you get about a day there. I guess you could stretch it to closer to two days if you left late on Sunday, but then you'll be getting home pretty late, and if you get off at a decent time to leave Friday, you probably have to be at work pretty early on Monday. And you would have to get off pretty early to allow time for the trip to the airport and getting there at least an hour before your flight.
Like I said, everyone is different, and if you are OK with paying $300+ just to get to Japan and spend a day and a half there, then by all means, go. I personally would have felt like it wasn't worth it if I had had to leave on Sunday, especially considering it was the day trips outside the city (Dazaifu, Nagasaki) that were the most enjoyable. |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:01 am Post subject: |
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I'm wondering if it's actually possible to do a daytrip to Singapore. I mean, they do have redeye flights both ways so it should theoretically be possible. Although it probably would be a pretty big waste of money.  |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| duke of new york wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
I've never been to Fukuoka, but based on everything I've heard, I don't really see the point in going there unless you live in Busan and can hop the ferry. |
It's worthwhile if you go to Nagasaki, which is about 2 hours by train. There's some cool stuff there. It's nice to take a break from Korean food for a few days, if nothing else. |
Isn't that train pretty expensive though? I mean, at some point you're talking about a quarter of the average teacher's take-home salary on travel alone. I'm not saying that it's a terrible idea, I just don't think the opportunity for weekend trips to Japan is something that people should be banking on. |
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duke of new york
Joined: 23 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| duke of new york wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
I've never been to Fukuoka, but based on everything I've heard, I don't really see the point in going there unless you live in Busan and can hop the ferry. |
It's worthwhile if you go to Nagasaki, which is about 2 hours by train. There's some cool stuff there. It's nice to take a break from Korean food for a few days, if nothing else. |
Isn't that train pretty expensive though? I mean, at some point you're talking about a quarter of the average teacher's take-home salary on travel alone. I'm not saying that it's a terrible idea, I just don't think the opportunity for weekend trips to Japan is something that people should be banking on. |
3000 yen, I think. Not that bad. But you're right, Japan is really expensive. Honestly, the only reason I was able to make this trip was because I stayed with a friend's family who insisted on paying for most everything. And I was saying that while a weekend in Japan is technically possible, I would not recommend it. If I'm going to spend that kind of money going somewhere, I'd like to stay for longer than that. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| duke of new york wrote: |
| 3000 yen, I think. Not that bad. But you're right, Japan is really expensive. Honestly, the only reason I was able to make this trip was because I stayed with a friend's family who insisted on paying for most everything. And I was saying that while a weekend in Japan is technically possible, I would not recommend it. If I'm going to spend that kind of money going somewhere, I'd like to stay for longer than that. |
I think we're on the same page here. I've never been to Japan, but I also have close friends there who could definitely cut down on costs for me. Even so, I'm really turned off by travel costs of over 500,000 for less than four or five nights, though I realize not everyone is.
Basically, I just want to get the point across that even though recruiters might sell it as such, Korea really isn't the best place to see Asia from. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| Basically, I just want to get the point across that even though recruiters might sell it as such, Korea really isn't the best place to see Asia from. |
How so?
International flights are international flights.
Taiwan isn't much better, you could go to Hong Kong, maybe Shanghai, maybe Manila for a weekend trip.
You could go to Thailand, but you'd get much less money to spend on that travel and what's in weekend range there?
Cambodia? Vietnam?
Maybe Malaysia
When it comes to bigger vacations it doesn't really matter where you are as you have lots of time on your hands.
Given flight times and costs it seems weekend trips are pretty much out anywhere for you, so you're only basing that judgment on longer vacations and at that point it's pretty irrelevant where you are.
Korea is a decent spot to hit the "hot spots" that first come to mind for most people when they think of Asia.
Tokyo
Beijing
Shanghai
Hong Kong
It's also not that far from the spots that most people would think about next
Manila
Taiwan
The most central place is probably Hong Kong but it's a tougher ESL market, higher qualifications needed from what I heard. So for people who want to travel where else is really better? |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| Taiwan and Vietnam are significantly better for getting anywhere in Southeast Asia, and don't pay all that much less. They're not much farther from the hot spots you cite, yet have a ton of other opportunities available (BKK, Singapore, Bali, etc.), that are significantly more expensive to get to from Korea. Basically, Korea is at the northern end of the habitable zone when it comes to Asian travel, whereas Vietnam and Taiwan are in the center. |
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busanliving
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Hong kong is doable in a weekend from busan. Flight fri night at 8.30 pm coming back leaves about 1am sun morning getting into Korea about 6am, a rough days work on the Monday but it will give you two full days there and tickets with air busan can be got for about 300,000 |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| Taiwan and Vietnam are significantly better for getting anywhere in Southeast Asia, and don't pay all that much less. They're not much farther from the hot spots you cite, yet have a ton of other opportunities available (BKK, Singapore, Bali, etc.), that are significantly more expensive to get to from Korea. Basically, Korea is at the northern end of the habitable zone when it comes to Asian travel, whereas Vietnam and Taiwan are in the center. |
Vietnam:
Salary: $1200-$1600 month for the average job according to a few websites, a recent job ad has 25 hours a week for 700-900 a month depending on qualifications.
Flight times (From Hanoi):
Beijing: 6h40m vs 2h from Seoul
Tokyo: 4h45m vs 2h10 from Seoul
Shanghai: 2h50m vs 2h from Seoul
Hong Kong: 1h50m vs 3h40m from Seoul
Hong Kong is closer, but Beijing and Tokyo are now entirely out of weekend trip range and Shanghai is starting to push it.
What does it add?
Taipai: 2h30m vs 2h40m from Seoul, of course the flights out of Hanoi are 2x the price of the flights from Seoul as well.
Bangkok: 2h, only $200
Phnom Penh: 8h, no direct flights
Manila: 4h50m no direct flights, over $1000 for a ticket, vs 4h from Seoul direct $751, 1 stop for under $500.
So what do you get out of Vietnam? Significantly smaller salary on average, Hong Kong and Bangkok in weekend range, and that's about it. All the ticket prices I checked were significantly higher out of Hanoi going to anywhere compared to Seoul, except for Bangkok. But vietnam already has reasonable beaches, is Bangkok really that attractive from there compared with going from Seoul? I don't really see anything there that makes Vietnam a clear winner vs South Korea in terms of travel and big Asian hot spots.
Taiwan:
Hong Kong: 1h45m obviously a winner here, at least on time, I would point out you can actually get a ticket for over $100 cheaper from Seoul if you want to take a little more time.
Shanghai: 1h35 faster, but again cheaper flight by about $70 out of incheon
Beijing: 3h20m
Tokyo: 3h
Manila: 2h5m, again faster, but a much cheaper flight available from Seoul if you want to take more time ($200 off)
Bangkok:3h40m vs 6h from Seoul, however ticket price is higher from Seoul on this one.
Hanoi: 3h10m vs 4h55m from Seoul. Seoul flight is $300 cheaper than Taipai's
Salary: Newbie teacher add I found suggested 65,000/month as a salary, about $2168 which is about 2.5 million won, but then later on suggests as low as 53000 or about $1769
Closer than Vietnam's to be sure. So what do we get out of Taiwan?
Well we get Hong Kong, and Shanghai in weekend distance, and add Manila. We lose Tokyo and Beijing. We get higher ticket prices on most tickets I checked to the hot spots. Cheaper, faster flights to Bangkok, but I don't know how the cost of living is in Taipai compared to Seoul.
I can't see how you could honestly look at either one of those and say they are "significantly" better for going places in Asia than Seoul.
tl;dr
Hanoi - more expensive flights, lower salary, not really closer to a significant amount of hot spots
taipai - more expensive flights in general, similar salary to slightly lower, trades off a couple of hot spots. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:10 am Post subject: |
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First off, I think you're travel destinations lean way too hard towards Northeast Asia. There's a lot more to SEA than BKK, particularly once you've been to Thailand a couple times.
Having done a lot of research on the subject, I've seen $1,800 a month as more or less standard in Vietnam (with a much, much lower cost of living, though you do have to pay for your own apartment). Taiwan offers pay similar to Vietnam, albeit with a higher cost of living (though still quite a bit cheaper than Korea).
I've found $100-200 round trip flights from Taipei to Singapore and Manila pretty frequently.
Hanoi is something of a backwater with a nothing airport that is significantly smaller than that of Saigon.
Regardless, I assume you're using flight search engines for your prices, which fails to take into account just how cheap Air Asia is when you're not using their nonsense Korean carrier.
You're also forgetting the fact that you can take a bus for next to nothing from Vietnam to Cambodia or Laos, or even to Thailand. This takes about as long as the China Eastern flights that so many foreigners take out of Korea, yet at 1/40th the price.
None of this takes into account the fact that Vietnam has infinitely more to offer than does Korea in terms of domestic travel, while Taiwan is about the same but with more regional variance and more convenience due to less traffic.
I guess Korea might be good if your goal is to come for a year and check off boxes on your Facebook "Where I've Been" map, but it's not the best place to go if you want to see new things. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| First off, I think you're travel destinations lean way too hard towards Northeast Asia. |
Certainly, those are the big ones when you take into consideration what most people think of as Asia, and the places they'd really want to see.
What else might we stick in there?
Kuala Lampur, Jakarta, Singapore?
None of these really factor into being close to Taiwan or Vietnam. At least not close enough to really make them a deciding factor.
I chose Hanoi to give it the best chance of being close to the main destinations. If you're in Ho Chi minh, it's going to increase travel times to all those places while not really bringing anything else into weekend travel distance.
I certainly can't confirm your estimate fo $1800/month in Vietnam as most job ads I'm checking on employment sites are showing less, or even much less.
In fact the first dozen I checked averaged out to about $1000/month. There was one big one offering $18-25/hour but most of them were 700-900 or 1000-1200.
| Quote: |
| Regardless, I assume you're using flight search engines for your prices, which fails to take into account just how cheap Air Asia is when you're not using their nonsense Korean carrier. |
I'm using sites which compare several air carriers, not just Korean carriers. I just checked Air Asia for Taipai to Bangkok and not only did they not have most dates available (no flights) the price was higher.
As far as buses go, Ho Chi Minh to Phenom Penh is nearly 400km. Even with a very fast bus, that's a fairly long travel time, plus stops, for a weekend trip. Laos is much further. To be honest here you're just not saying stuff that checks out. Wages, ticket prices, bus times, etc.
There are basically three kinds of travel opportunities you have during your time here:
1. Weekend trips
2. Standard week vacation
3. Post contract kicking about
The only one that is highly dependent on location is weekend trips. A couple of extra hours here or there on a standard week (9 days) vacation isn't a huge deal. Post contract you've got all the time you want, so again a couple of extra hours here and there isn't a big deal.
If you really want to take weekend trips to Hong Kong, Taipai, or Manila, you might want to choose a different spot.
Longer trips are mostly irrelevant. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:08 am Post subject: |
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Korean weather aweful 8 months of the year?
Not from a Canadian perspective its not!!! 
As for your question OP: sure you can travel during your vacation (10 days on average). Some of the national holidays also afford you time for short trips but if you want to go outside of Korea, you need to book well in advance.
Traveling within Korea can be very cool and you can learn a lot about the country. There are lots of options for weekend trips and if you are willing to venture off the beaten path there are real gems out there!
Finally, remember that you are going to Korea to teach fulltime and that this means work comes before travel. Just like any teacher, taking days off during teaching sessions is not easy and in Korea its much harder due to visa issues for finding a sub for your classes. One smart way to travel is at the end of your contract. Either you save up and then travel asia for a month or two and then go home or you can always get another job in Korea but pick something with a start date that gives you a month or two of break and travel during that time. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Korean weather aweful 8 months of the year?
Not from a Canadian perspective its not!!! |
I'll take Montreal weather over Korean weather any day of the week.
In any case, I don't understand the focus on cities as destinations, and Vietnam, on its own offers a ton of domestic travel. I've traveled around Korea quite a bit, and I have gotten off the beaten path (my girlfriend has a car), and I've been more unimpressed (and depressed) with pretty much every time I've traveled. The only place I've enjoyed was Seoraksan, which is the epitome of on the beaten path. At the end of the day, Korean country towns are just kind of ugly and it's natural beauty is, at best, about the same as the New England hills that I grew up in, just with more neon and fewer idyllic little towns. This isn't the fault of the Korean people, as I understand entirely why it is the case, but that doesn't make it any more palatable. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| I don't understand the focus on cities as destinations |
You claimed Korea wasn't a good spot to see Asia from.
I gave three travel scenarios and focused on the one for which location is most relevant. Weekend travel doesn't give you a lot of time to be heading out of the major cities for extended periods of time. Flying in to smaller cities often means increased travel time and that ruins any weekend trips.
For kicking around after your contract or going somewhere during your one of your two 9 day vacations (if you can get them) whether you're in Taiwan, Seoul or Vietnam is pretty irrelevant. A couple extra hours and a couple hundred bucks extra really aren't that big of a deal to call one significantly better than the other.
"seeing Asia" is not domestic travel. That would be getting out and seeing the other parts of Asia that you can't see all the time whenever you want.
You can take weekend trips in any country that you're in, the question is where can you go for a weekend outside the country if the opportunity presents itself. I don't think you can make the case that Vietnam or Taiwan is significantly better than Korea in those cases unless you have a personal preference for where you can go on those weekend trips. Taipai and Seoul both put you in range for about 4 major cities, for similar prices. That was the point. When you add in Salary, Vietnam really doesn't seem to be in the game at all, and Taiwan is not bad. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Korean weather aweful 8 months of the year?
Not from a Canadian perspective its not!!! |
I'll take Montreal weather over Korean weather any day of the week.
In any case, I don't understand the focus on cities as destinations, and Vietnam, on its own offers a ton of domestic travel. I've traveled around Korea quite a bit, and I have gotten off the beaten path (my girlfriend has a car), and I've been more unimpressed (and depressed) with pretty much every time I've traveled. The only place I've enjoyed was Seoraksan, which is the epitome of on the beaten path. At the end of the day, Korean country towns are just kind of ugly and it's natural beauty is, at best, about the same as the New England hills that I grew up in, just with more neon and fewer idyllic little towns. This isn't the fault of the Korean people, as I understand entirely why it is the case, but that doesn't make it any more palatable. |
You got it my man....
I lived in Montreal for a few years (grad school) and they have BRUTAL WINTERS. It gets dark around 4pm until February and it gets mighty cold my man.
I will take Busan's mild winter, nice fall and spring over Montreal's Deep freeze winter thanks 
As for the trips inside Korea, to each his own! |
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