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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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 Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
It is a fairly monumental task to completely redesign a country's address system. |
Redesigning the address system is going to do nothing to make giving directions any easier because the streets themselves are poorly designed (well of course the whole thing was thrown together haphazardly with no foresight). The only way to get around that problem is to bulldoze and rebuild. I've always said that Busan is a poorly built city and I'd like nothing more than to bulldoze the entire thing and rebuild it.
Of the cities I've been to, as far as planning goes Chicago has been the best then New York. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
It is a fairly monumental task to completely redesign a country's address system. |
Redesigning the address system is going to do nothing to make giving directions any easier because the streets themselves are poorly designed (well of course the whole thing was thrown together haphazardly with no foresight). The only way to get around that problem is to bulldoze and rebuild. I've always said that Busan is a poorly built city and I'd like nothing more than to bulldoze the entire thing and rebuild it.
Of the cities I've been to, as far as planning goes Chicago has been the best then New York. |
You do realize that the history of many of these cities is like 5X older than that of Chicago, right?
You do realize that they started in feudal-agrarian times and weren't designed with cars, subways, and foreign tourists in mind, right? |
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CheeseSandwich
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
It is a fairly monumental task to completely redesign a country's address system. |
Redesigning the address system is going to do nothing to make giving directions any easier because the streets themselves are poorly designed (well of course the whole thing was thrown together haphazardly with no foresight). The only way to get around that problem is to bulldoze and rebuild. I've always said that Busan is a poorly built city and I'd like nothing more than to bulldoze the entire thing and rebuild it.
Of the cities I've been to, as far as planning goes Chicago has been the best then New York. |
You do realize that the history of many of these cities is like 5X older than that of Chicago, right?
You do realize that they started in feudal-agrarian times and weren't designed with cars, subways, and foreign tourists in mind, right? |
But then it was blown up in the Korean War. So ya know clean slate. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
It is a fairly monumental task to completely redesign a country's address system. |
Redesigning the address system is going to do nothing to make giving directions any easier because the streets themselves are poorly designed (well of course the whole thing was thrown together haphazardly with no foresight). The only way to get around that problem is to bulldoze and rebuild. I've always said that Busan is a poorly built city and I'd like nothing more than to bulldoze the entire thing and rebuild it.
Of the cities I've been to, as far as planning goes Chicago has been the best then New York. |
You do realize that the history of many of these cities is like 5X older than that of Chicago, right?
You do realize that they started in feudal-agrarian times and weren't designed with cars, subways, and foreign tourists in mind, right? |
This isn't true of most of Gyeonggi-do (which includes many of the larger cities in the country), and as a result they have more logical street systems. It's just that the addresses haven't caught up. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| CheeseSandwich wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
It is a fairly monumental task to completely redesign a country's address system. |
Redesigning the address system is going to do nothing to make giving directions any easier because the streets themselves are poorly designed (well of course the whole thing was thrown together haphazardly with no foresight). The only way to get around that problem is to bulldoze and rebuild. I've always said that Busan is a poorly built city and I'd like nothing more than to bulldoze the entire thing and rebuild it.
Of the cities I've been to, as far as planning goes Chicago has been the best then New York. |
You do realize that the history of many of these cities is like 5X older than that of Chicago, right?
You do realize that they started in feudal-agrarian times and weren't designed with cars, subways, and foreign tourists in mind, right? |
But then it was blown up in the Korean War. So ya know clean slate. |
Yeah, nation in ruins, still technically at war, one of the poorest countries on Earth. Let's focus on concentrated urban planning with a mind towards tourism. None of this money on say, having an actual Air Force r building a system of highways. Nope, redesigning Seoul from the ground up. Who cares where people live through the bitter cold winter, just have em sleep in tents while we bulldoze everything and rebuild it for the year 2012.
Yeah, great idea.
No to mention, the roads still existed as did parts of the city. Tokyo was firebombed and so was Dresden but the roads were still there.
BTW- going back to concrete and not say, traditional Korean wood houses. Look above to what I wrote and see if there might be a connection as to why there is an abundance of concrete in a city that is within artillery range of a nation it is still technically at war with. |
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myenglishisno
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Geumchon
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| CheeseSandwich wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
It is a fairly monumental task to completely redesign a country's address system. |
Redesigning the address system is going to do nothing to make giving directions any easier because the streets themselves are poorly designed (well of course the whole thing was thrown together haphazardly with no foresight). The only way to get around that problem is to bulldoze and rebuild. I've always said that Busan is a poorly built city and I'd like nothing more than to bulldoze the entire thing and rebuild it.
Of the cities I've been to, as far as planning goes Chicago has been the best then New York. |
You do realize that the history of many of these cities is like 5X older than that of Chicago, right?
You do realize that they started in feudal-agrarian times and weren't designed with cars, subways, and foreign tourists in mind, right? |
But then it was blown up in the Korean War. So ya know clean slate. |
Yeah, nation in ruins, still technically at war, one of the poorest countries on Earth. Let's focus on concentrated urban planning with a mind towards tourism. None of this money on say, having an actual Air Force r building a system of highways. Nope, redesigning Seoul from the ground up. Who cares where people live through the bitter cold winter, just have em sleep in tents while we bulldoze everything and rebuild it for the year 2012.
Yeah, great idea.
No to mention, the roads still existed as did parts of the city. Tokyo was firebombed and so was Dresden but the roads were still there.
BTW- going back to concrete and not say, traditional Korean wood houses. Look above to what I wrote and see if there might be a connection as to why there is an abundance of concrete in a city that is within artillery range of a nation it is still technically at war with. |
I agree.
This thread is bordering on ridiculous. Korea developed so fast that much of the "planning" was haphazard at best. The reason everything was built in an identical way is because planners asked themselves, "how can we best house 50 million people in an economical way, on top of what is already being built now?" What you see before you everyday is the answer.
Also, look to America's suburbs and ghettos before you poke fun at the way another country was designed. Objectively speaking, though ugly, Korea's thousands of prefab apartment buildings make a lot of sense.
Korea developed in layers, too. The old villas that we've all lived in are from an older time and they were the standard for awhile. Then, they were mostly replaced with the cookie-cutter towers that all look the same. Now, the new designs are a bit swankier, more efficient and more technologically advanced than the old designs. They're also more varied.
If you want to see what Korean cities are starting to look like, go to Dongtan or somewhere similar. It's a very nice looking city and it's extremely well designed. I would live in one of those places in a heartbeat.
Then go look at Hongdae and how all the old businesses are renovating themselves: it's an artsy area if I've ever seen one. Lots of places in Korea are beginning to follow suit.
Then look at pictures of Korea 20 years ago and compare.
Korean cities should be admired, not admonished. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't mean to crap on Korea in the least here, but considering that this thread was initially geared towards asking how new Korean cities could be improved upon, I do think a more logical address system with proper street names would make things easier all-around. |
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myenglishisno
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Geumchon
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| I don't mean to crap on Korea in the least here, but considering that this thread was initially geared towards asking how new Korean cities could be improved upon, I do think a more logical address system with proper street names would make things easier all-around. |
Thats the thing. People complain about things being illogical in their design however I find most design here to be more logical. Western city design has its origins in centuries of traditions whereas Korea doesn't.
The addresses work and people are used to them. Every country in Asia has the same or a similar system (in Japan a building's number is based on when it was built and there are also no street names). If it ain't broke don't fix it. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| myenglishisno wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| I don't mean to crap on Korea in the least here, but considering that this thread was initially geared towards asking how new Korean cities could be improved upon, I do think a more logical address system with proper street names would make things easier all-around. |
Thats the thing. People complain about things being illogical in their design however I find most design here to be more logical. Western city design has its origins in centuries of traditions whereas Korea doesn't.
The addresses work and people are used to them. Every country in Asia has the same or a similar system (in Japan a building's number is based on when it was built and there are also no street names). If it ain't broke don't fix it. |
This is untrue. Bangkok certainly doesn't, and I don't believe Vietnamese cities do either, from what I remember. |
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minos
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Location: kOREA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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| Korean cities are the ugliest, most mediocre urban places I have ever seen. Trash cans and different parking regulations will do nothing to change that--it is a flaw in the Korean national character. They care nothing for beauty. |
Most Korean people if you talk to them about it accept that their cities are ugly. I did an experiment once and asked Korean adults to identify modern buidlings considered 'ugly' by Western standards and modern buildings considered beautiful, thinking it might show up differences between Asian and Western ideas of Aesthetics but they all chose the same 'ugly' buildings as those considered ugly in the West. And yet those kind of buildings are everywhere in Korea. In fact while they were doing the activity and picking out the buildings they thought were ugly, they were also likening them to buildings in Korea. There does seem to be an attitude that it doesn't really matter. For example, Ask Koreans where they'd like to live most in Seoul and they will say things like Banpo/Gagnam etc..because it's near such and such or because of the education facilities in the area. I've never heard anyone say, 'I'd like to live in .............because it's an attractive neighbourhood. Maybe they just have a very functional attitude to their city environments. |
Uhhhh....rent's pretty damn high in hip areas. It's not convient access although that's a big factor for some.
They also get serious bragging rights for living in gangnam.
As my gyopo friend put it
"Americans ask where are you from; koreans ask where do you live"
What many koreans want in a building is high tech, low maintenance. They'll take a wired, robotic apartment over an old school korean house like their grandpa lived in.
Few koreans seem interested in nostalgia living like westerners do. In the west, people buy old barns, vintage homes, and decorate homes like different eras. I posed this idea to some koreans and they said it's stupid; The more modern the better. |
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myenglishisno
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Geumchon
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| myenglishisno wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| I don't mean to crap on Korea in the least here, but considering that this thread was initially geared towards asking how new Korean cities could be improved upon, I do think a more logical address system with proper street names would make things easier all-around. |
Thats the thing. People complain about things being illogical in their design however I find most design here to be more logical. Western city design has its origins in centuries of traditions whereas Korea doesn't.
The addresses work and people are used to them. Every country in Asia has the same or a similar system (in Japan a building's number is based on when it was built and there are also no street names). If it ain't broke don't fix it. |
This is untrue. Bangkok certainly doesn't, and I don't believe Vietnamese cities do either, from what I remember. |
I was thinking more of East Asia. I've never been to Thailand and I'd imagine Vietnam got most of whatever systems they use from the French. |
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SMOE NSET
Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Whenever you have a chance, you should check out the currently being built Pangyo area and then say the buildings are boring.
I wish they had more areas like that with real houses. They have many different styles to choose from from older styles to ultra modern styles that actually look like museums.
I only know of three places with real houses in a developed area (Ilsan, Suji, and now Pangyo). I can imagine that the low number is for lack of space but I wish there were more as they are really neat places. The main problem is only the ultra rich can afford them. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| SMOE NSET wrote: |
Whenever you have a chance, you should check out the currently being built Pangyo area and then say the buildings are boring.
I wish they had more areas like that with real houses. They have many different styles to choose from from older styles to ultra modern styles that actually look like museums.
I only know of three places with real houses in a developed area (Ilsan, Suji, and now Pangyo). I can imagine that the low number is for lack of space but I wish there were more as they are really neat places. The main problem is only the ultra rich can afford them. |
True. I live in Pangyo and can testify that there are some pretty tasty buildings here.
But the pricing is obscene. The most ritzy development, Appelbaum, has apartments from 2 to 8 million USD!!!
$8,000,000 for an apartment outside Seoul!!
Of course, this was pre-2008 pricing........I wonder what they're going for now. |
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Yangachi
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Few koreans seem interested in nostalgia living like westerners do. In the west, people buy old barns, vintage homes, and decorate homes like different eras. I posed this idea to some koreans and they said it's stupid; The more modern the better. |
This is because the majority of Koreans have very little appreciation for art, design, aesthetics, etc. Not only do many Koreans live in almost identical-looking apartments, but they decorate them in almost the same way.
One thing that needs to be done in Seoul is to make the city more pedestrian friendly, so plant more trees, pedestrianize more areas like Myeong-dong, and make some of the ridiculous 8- and 10-line streets narrower. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
This is because the majority of Koreans have very little appreciation for art, design, aesthetics, etc. Not only do many Koreans live in almost identical-looking apartments, but they decorate them in almost the same way.
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Just curious but how many apartments have you been in and in what way were they all similar? I've only been inside about 3 and they were all pretty different. Apart from the obvious things like no carpets, low tables and enormous LG/Samsung TVs in the living rooms.. |
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