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losthooper
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
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 Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I pay my own utility bills, as stated in the contract. I get three separate bills in the mail and I pay for them at my bank. |
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Wildbore
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| Wildbore wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
As to the former worker's maintenance fees, these are considered utilities in Korea and are one of the utilities that a teacher must pay as part of the housing under a standard teaching contract here. If this former worker hadn't paid his maintenance fees or hadn't had them deducted then this was a legitimate deduction from his final pay. 720,000 won is a lot all at once, but was it for a year or two years, or had he stopped paying?
There are too many unknowns in this puzzle. |
How is a maintenance fee a utility? That's like saying the key deposit is a utility, because that could be used for maintenance (replacing things) as well. According to the dictionary, it isn't. It is clearly a non-utility fee. If he contract states utilities, then this fee should NEVER be deducted. If this fee is directly or even indirectly mentioned, then the deduction would be warranted.
Sewer and trash is paid for by taxes. Actually, the trash is paid for directly by the pink bags you buy. The sewer is maintained through property taxes. The maintenance fee has nothing to do with utilities, its for building maintenance, like hiring the window washer or plumber. It also could be a slush fund for the building manager.
I would say a judge would go with Black's law dictionary on this one. |
The monthly "maintenance" fees include many things. They are legally considered a utility in Korea. They are paid by occupants of the units and treated as a utility. You are using the wrong dictionary.
Sewer and water bills are either billed directly to each unit or to the condo association with pays them and includes them on the monthly maintenance bill to unit occupants.
Recycling, trash and cleaning services provided by condo managers are included on the bills as well, despite the requirement that you use the color coded trash bags (they are not pink throughout Korea). Many units include elevator service, lighting, parking, and security in the monthly mainenance bill. Some include electric bills and the universal TV tax.
Neither your unfounded and totally incorrect assertions nor Mr. Black's admirable work of English legal scholarship bear any relationship to the realities of these utility charges in Korea. No Korean judge would entertain the relevance or authority of either. |
Again, you might be right if the contract was in Korean. But, most ESL contracts are signed in English, so they must be interpreted in that light. Some contracts even include provisions stating that the English form of the contract shall take precedence over any translation. The English definition is QUITE CLEAR, the misc. fees you mention (parking, trash, etc) do not constitute a utility charge. |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| Wildbore wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| Wildbore wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
As to the former worker's maintenance fees, these are considered utilities in Korea and are one of the utilities that a teacher must pay as part of the housing under a standard teaching contract here. If this former worker hadn't paid his maintenance fees or hadn't had them deducted then this was a legitimate deduction from his final pay. 720,000 won is a lot all at once, but was it for a year or two years, or had he stopped paying?
There are too many unknowns in this puzzle. |
How is a maintenance fee a utility? That's like saying the key deposit is a utility, because that could be used for maintenance (replacing things) as well. According to the dictionary, it isn't. It is clearly a non-utility fee. If he contract states utilities, then this fee should NEVER be deducted. If this fee is directly or even indirectly mentioned, then the deduction would be warranted.
Sewer and trash is paid for by taxes. Actually, the trash is paid for directly by the pink bags you buy. The sewer is maintained through property taxes. The maintenance fee has nothing to do with utilities, its for building maintenance, like hiring the window washer or plumber. It also could be a slush fund for the building manager.
I would say a judge would go with Black's law dictionary on this one. |
The monthly "maintenance" fees include many things. They are legally considered a utility in Korea. They are paid by occupants of the units and treated as a utility. You are using the wrong dictionary.
Sewer and water bills are either billed directly to each unit or to the condo association with pays them and includes them on the monthly maintenance bill to unit occupants.
Recycling, trash and cleaning services provided by condo managers are included on the bills as well, despite the requirement that you use the color coded trash bags (they are not pink throughout Korea). Many units include elevator service, lighting, parking, and security in the monthly mainenance bill. Some include electric bills and the universal TV tax.
Neither your unfounded and totally incorrect assertions nor Mr. Black's admirable work of English legal scholarship bear any relationship to the realities of these utility charges in Korea. No Korean judge would entertain the relevance or authority of either. |
Again, you might be right if the contract was in Korean. But, most ESL contracts are signed in English, so they must be interpreted in that light. Some contracts even include provisions stating that the English form of the contract shall take precedence over any translation. The English definition is QUITE CLEAR, the misc. fees you mention (parking, trash, etc) do not constitute a utility charge. |
But legal definitions of a native country most likely will trump that unless its clearly spelled out in the contract. Also, trash would be considered a utility, as a public service.
Its probably a moot point, as I've never seen a contract that didn't specifically explain who pays what. Mine says that I'm "responsible for utilities and maintenance fees, and any other fees associated with housing". |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| Wildbore wrote: |
| Again, you might be right if the contract was in Korean. But, most ESL contracts are signed in English, so they must be interpreted in that light. Some contracts even include provisions stating that the English form of the contract shall take precedence over any translation. The English definition is QUITE CLEAR, the misc. fees you mention (parking, trash, etc) do not constitute a utility charge. |
As often as I disagree with ontheway I have to agree with him this time.
You make an issue out of this one and you lose.
In Korea, regardless of the language the contract was written in, the "maintenance fee" is considered to be a utility fee and unless specifically excluded in your contract it becomes your responsibility.
utility fee : a fee imposed for the use of a commodity or service.
They commonly include non rent costs associated with habitation in a multiple person dwelling; ie: common area costs.
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bbunce
Joined: 28 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:02 am Post subject: |
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None of this really matters until the OP gets a paystub. I get about 250,000 deducted from my paycheck. (2.0 salary) I pay 50K a month for monthly maintenance fee which includes cleaning the common areas and cable on top of the pension/health insurance and taxes. Maybe your fee is alot more because you live in a penthouse or something?  Probably not. Just keep banging on the door everyday until you receive a detailed list of deductions. If they continue to refuse, contact the tax and pension offices. Have you used your insurance yet? Do you pay 3K or 25K to see the doctor? If you say 25K, you are being screwed. I agree with the post that suggests you keep your mouth shut at work. The walls have ears. In the meantime, don't go to the labor board because you don't know if you even have a problem. You'll just get fired and lose even more. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| losthooper wrote: |
| I pay my own utility bills, as stated in the contract. I get three separate bills in the mail and I pay for them at my bank. |
Now we're getting some info.
What are these three bills for? What do they cover? Three bills may or may not cover all of your utilities.
???
Monthly maintenance fee from the housing office
Gas (heat, cooking, hot water)
Electricity (could be part of maintenance)
Cable TV
Telephone (land line)
Internet (Tel and Internet could be combined)
You need to try to figure out which bills you are not getting so you can guess what items could be included in this unexplained 200k in deductions.
Really the only solution is to keep up the pressure for an itemized pay statement with all deductions. It seems to happen frequently, even at some public schools, that these are not provided in Korea. It always amazes me that there are employers who can't see that their employees want, expect and deserve to know what is being deducted from their pay.
Every employer that I've had in Korea has either provided me with an itemized statement or I've made my own statement with the numbers for all tax and other deductions and presented that to the school so they could pay the balance to me.
OP. Maybe you should make up your own statement with numbers as you can best determine them and present that statement to the school. Tell them that you want the balance paid to you or an explanation as to what is missing.
Then, if they don't pay or provide an accounting of the difference, and if you're ready to make a move, you can demand payment or you will resign. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:50 am Post subject: |
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If you are paying your own bills already, there's little doubt that you are being shafted on your pay. But you need some kind of proof to show to the labor board.
By the way, only about 1/3rd of my employers in Korea ever provided pay-slips, Even Public schools. |
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losthooper
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
Monthly maintenance fee from the housing office
Gas (heat, cooking, hot water)
Electricity (could be part of maintenance)
Cable TV
Telephone (land line)
Internet (Tel and Internet could be combined)
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I don't have a telephone land line or television.
I setup my own internet with the help of a korean friend, and I pay that separately.
The three fees are for Gas, Electricity and Trash.
I don't know about a monthly maintenance fee. |
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Wildbore
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| losthooper wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
Monthly maintenance fee from the housing office
Gas (heat, cooking, hot water)
Electricity (could be part of maintenance)
Cable TV
Telephone (land line)
Internet (Tel and Internet could be combined)
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I don't have a telephone land line or television.
I setup my own internet with the help of a korean friend, and I pay that separately.
The three fees are for Gas, Electricity and Trash.
I don't know about a monthly maintenance fee. |
I found this in the English translation of the labor standards act, it may be applicable in this case:
| Quote: |
Article 17 (Statement of Working Conditions)
(1) An employer shall clearly state the matters described in
any of the following subparagraphs.[b/] The same shall apply in
the case of altering the following matters after a labor contract
is made: <Amended by Act No. 10319, May 25, 2010>
1. Wages;
2. Contractual working hours;
3. Holidays under Article 55;
4. Annual paid leave under Article 60;
5. Other working conditions prescribed by the Presidential
Decree.
(2) An employer shall issue a worker with a written
statement specifying the components of, and methods of
calculation and payment of, the wages referred to in paragraph
(1)................ <Enforcement Date Jan. 1, 2012> |
If you have not received notice on how your wages are calculated, the emlpoyer must provide one.
As of January 1st, this is now enforceable labor law, bottom line is get the statement from the employer or call the labor board and they will compel him to provide the statement in question. |
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