Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Doodly]

My doctor wanted me to have one at every appointment. I had two before researching and learning that the risks (including a possible link to autism) outweigh the benefits in almost every case. They're quite unnecessary, especially if you have no intention of aborting regardless of what the ultrasound might suggest (I say suggest because they aren't always accurate and sometimes predict problems when the baby is actually healthy). I also found out that Korean doctors perform more prenatal ultrasounds than anywhere else! Once I explained my concerns, my doctor told me that it's my choice, they're not necessary and I should just get the regular blood test done. He said that it's much cheaper to do ultrasounds here so that's probably why so many are done. I wish that I hadn't had those two early ultrasounds. Instead, I should have waited and then I may have considered having only one at around twenty weeks, which is typical in the US and Canada. However, since I had the first two, I will only have another one if there is an indication of a severe problem.

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2009/12/22/2009122200632.html

[Snowflake]

^

Great way to freak people out. Nice one.

"Ultrasound examination is painless and safe. It does not use radiation and so carries none of the associated risks. Ultrasound is not known to have any harmful effects, and is not known to harm your baby. It is considered safe to use during pregnancy." http://www.bupa.co.uk/individuals/health-information/directory/u/ultrasound

Ultrasound is needed to check your baby's development and if there are any problems then steps can be taken to avoid problems. In my case ultrasound showed up a slightly small amniotic sac which could have been a miscarriage risk if undetected - it was detected and so steps were taken. Please don't stress about ultrasound, you do have quite a few here (lost count of how many I had in the end) but I just found it reassuring - they're on top of everything.
Hope the spotting wasn't anything serious? I also had it and was terrified but turned out to be nothing.
Good luck with everything

[Dodge7]

Doodly DID freak me out!

Snowflake brought me back down. I don't know what to think. I'm just a paranoid first-time father!

Snowflake:
The spotting STOPPED!
Thank the Lord.
The pregnancy is going on--with the usual crazy mood swings and nauseous feelings. Poor girl...

Of course I now have to do 90% of the work load around the house...

Guys and girls--is this right? Yes or no? She's only 4 weeks along. Do you make your man do 90% of the house work at this stage of the pregnancy?

I told her I'd do everything when she's bulging, but she's just milking the system I'm thinking, lol.

I love her either way, though =)

[PatrickGHBusan]

[Dodge7]

Thanks Pat.

I'll do the extra work around the house with a smile then =)

[PatrickGHBusan]

[Doodly]

Not trying to freak people out. I researched this very topic so recently that I felt obligated to share. I'm pregnant and try not to be too paranoid or too naive about things. It seems to me that those expecting would be wise to at least make themselves aware of potential risks. I was surprised by what I learned. You're free to do your own research and decide for yourself. I did read a lot of websites and books that say it's safe. On the other hand, a lot of studies and doctors are saying that ultrasounds should be avoided unless necessary due to the unknown longterm effects. Time will tell. Obviously, they must be safe most of the time or more effects would already be more obvious and proven. The autism connection is still being studied, of course. But, what studies show so far has convinced me that ultrasounds could very well be one of the possible environmental factors that I can avoid. Delayed speech and lower birth weight have been proven to be more common in babies who were exposed to ultrasound. Compared to autism, those seem like more minor problems to me... but since ultrasounds have proven effect on development, who knows what else they might trigger in some babies? I can't worry about the effects of the ultrasounds that I've already had, but choose not to have anymore unless it's determined to be truly necessary. I know now that the two that I had were simply standard procedure in Korea.

By the way, I don't think the non-ionizing radiation is the suspected problem. It could be the effect of the sound waves or the heat that it creates in the tissues, or the combination. You do know how they say pregnant women shouldn't go to in hot tubs or saunas, right?

I'd recommend "Ina May's Guide to Childbirth." She does a good job at explaining the history, risks and misconceptions about benefits of ultrasounds. It's also an informative book about other birth technologies and birth in general.

[PatrickGHBusan]

Doodly with all due respect, thats just your oipinion formed on what you read online and in books based on your research.

It may not sound alarmist to you but it can create a lot of stress for others because of the way you word your posts.

My advice as a father of 2: talk to your doctor about these issues and if you are confortable with the answers, seek a second opinion. The worst possible things to do in these cases is to "self diagnose" based on online research (not saying thats what you did exclusively Doodly). So many bad decisions are made by people who think they can figure it all out themselves based on online research.

Ultrasounds are mostly non intrusive and having ONE during your entire pregnancy seems quite reasonable to me.

Lots of conflicting research on coffee and alcohol consumption for pregnant women out there too. Some say none, some say some...who is right?


As far as medical studies go, there are many out there who say vaccination is bad and that advise parents not to vaccinate their kids....just as an example.

Good luck to all the soon to be parents and all I can say for now is: sleep now! Go out now! lol

[Dodge7]

Doodly:
I have read also from other people on forums like babycenter.com, that ultrasounds are or could be dangerous but it was quickly opposed by others from the medical field.
I already had one, going back today for another because we went too early the first time and he couldn't locate the gestation sac, and will probably only allow 1 or 2 possibly 3 more.
Also they are intravaginal as opposed to the external ones. NOt sure if one is considered to be safer or better than other.
I did also read that it is widely considered to be harmless if you have a licensed sonographer administering the tests as opposed to buying your own ultrasound and doing them almost everyday at your home (true story.)
I am going to request that no extra ultrasounds be conducted without cause or complications for the duration of the pregnancy.
Maybe one more around 20 weeks to find out the sex and another towards the end.
Thanks all.

[Snowflake]

Doodly - I was told a similar thing (that ultrasounds can affect hearing) by an American doula here so - 7 months pregnant at this point and so completely terrified at being told this after countless ultrasounds - I did my research. It was quickly clear that there is no scientific research/evidence to prove any link to hearing defects/autism or anything to suggest that ultrasounds are unsafe. It seems like a lot of internet rumour as far as I could tell.

[Doodly]

Yes, it's my opinion. No, don't self-diagnose. As I said, do research. That includes talking to your doctor. I explained that I brought my concerns to my doctor and we discussed it. I never once advised people against getting one if the doctor can explain how it is medically necessary. In fact, I stated the opposite and said that I'll have another one if I'm told that it's necessary. However, if the suspected concern would still be uncorrectable or if it couldn't be more accurately proven in another way e.g. blood test, then I wouldn't deem the ultrasound to be medically necessary for me. You can call me old fashioned.

It is very similar to the alcohol and vaccination debates, except that most women are now aware of those issues and know that they can learn about it and make their own decision. Smoking during pregnancy used to fine too, but that one isn't up for debate anymore. With ultrasounds, people assume that there is no issue and that's just not the case (fact, not opinion). Women should be informed that there are considerations to be taken into account. I used to think it was great that I'd be able to get lots of ultrasounds here just because it's cool to see the baby. It'll be a long time before we know for sure. Hospitals have a lot of fear about being sued either way. Mothers who had ultrasounds already don't want to worry about it or have fear about being blamed or guilty should their baby develop problems. It's really a choice that expecting parents should be aware of so they can make an informed decision with their doctor.

Dodge7, I'm going with what's typical in my home country, which is 1-3, not the 10.7 on average that Korean women get. Why risk it? I think it's great that you and your wife are going to limit unnecessary exposure too.

Snowflake, I understand that you don't want yourself or others to stress about it. In a lot of cases, ultrasounds create even more unnecessary stress. They sometimes inaccurately indicate that there's a problem. Then blood tests need to be done to determine whether or not there really is a problem. I think it's important that people are aware even if it causes a little concern so they can weigh their potential risks and benefits. There have been scientific studies done, I'm not talking about the babycentre forum and internet junk. Evaluating the source is important. So far enough studies have been done to warrant the American Pregnancy Association to say that �The long term effects of repeated ultrasound exposures on the fetus are not fully known. It is recommended that ultrasound only be used if medically indicated.� At 10.7 ultrasounds on average, it is terribly apparent that the average Korean woman is oblivious to the fact that she could be putting her baby at any risk. With an average number that high, it's impossible that they are usually done out of medical necessity. For a few examples, if there's no bleeding or pain then it's unnecessary to do an ultrasound to see if there is a pregnancy. That can be verified by urine, blood and patience. If you disagree, ask your grandmother and most of the women in the world who don't have access to ultrasounds. An ultrasound for the baby's position near birth? A decent doctor or midwife can feel that. The baby's heartbeat later on? A good doctor or midwife can find it using a stethoscope. Small gestational sac? Measure it by ultrasound then worry until the follow-up ultrasound or until the blood test results come back, unless the doctor wants to jump to conclusions right away. No thanks, blood test will do.

Anyway, aside from the highest autism rate in the world (which could be caused by many factors), Korean babies seem fine despite the high number of ultrasounds so I hope that someday ultrasounds will be thoroughly tested, regulated and proven to be safe in the long-term. The original question was about whether or not Korean doctors are ultrasound-happy. The answer is definitely according to the Korean FDA. They perform about three times as many ultrasounds as in most of our home countries so, regardless of whether or not they're safe, it's undeniable that Korean doctors are performing unnecessary ultrasounds. Coincidentally, Korea also has one of the world's highest unnecessary c-section rates, doesn't it?

[laynamarya]

One ultrasound every two weeks DID seem like a lot to me. Whether or not they carry risks for autism and/or hearing, it is good to know we have the option of declining them when unnecessary.

Snowflake, you mentioned speaking with a doula, would you recommend that avenue? Have you used a doula in the past, as well? I've also heard about the high rate of c-sections and episiotomies in Korea, both of which I'd like to avoid if at all possible. From my understanding, a doula can help avoid both of those issues.

And gentlemen, yes, my husband is doing 90% of the housework these days. I've read that the second trimester is the easiest; I'll hopefully be able to do exciting things like wash dishes and maybe even be able to stand the smell of kimchi again. Here's hoping.

[Scott in Incheon]

As far as the autism thing goes...you might want to take a closer look at the articles about the rates in SK.

From a CNN article

[Lolimahro]