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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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 Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| jumponit wrote: |
| the amount of crazies/homeless ppl in seoul's subway system is shocking. |
Shocking? Really? Is Seoul the only city you've ever been to? |
That's what I'm wondering too? Seoul and area has ohhh... only some 20 million people. And like 25% of the population uses the subway at least once a day. We aren't in Kansas anymore...
I'm more shocked that the subway bathrooms are as clean and usable as they are, considering the massive amounts of people that use the subways. |
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Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| Joe Boxer wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| I personally don't care how much of a contribution LG and Samsung have made to the economy, illegal is illegal. As such they need to be fined into bankruptcy court. Something like 300 times their market cap. Heck, if they could break up one of the Chaebols to make an example out of them, all the better. And make sure to throw the CEO's in prison for life. |
Ever hear of the expression "cutting off your nose to spite your face"? |
Perhaps 300 times the market cap is a little extreme, but the fines need to be at least greater than the amount of the illicit profits. This and restitution. |
And not making the crooked CEOs poster children for Olympic bids. |
Yeah that too. Evidently an insider-trading government official-bribing tax cheat is the best Korea has to offer  |
The worst part is that it works for them! 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung#Olympics
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Samsung was instrumental in bringing the 2018 Winter Olympics to Pyeongchang. In December 2009, the former chairman of Samsung, Lee Kun-hee, was pardoned in order that he could return to the International Olympics Committee and help South Korea bid for the 2018 Winter Olympics in Pyeongchang. He had previously been convicted of tax evasion in 2008 and had been part of two failed bids to bring the Olympics to South Korea. [58]
During this bid, Lee Kun-hee and figure skating gold medalist Kim Yuna lobbied heavily for support; it was thought that Lee's influence would help to secure the bid. On July 6 2011, it was announced that Pyeongchang would be the location of the 2018 Winter Games. [59] Samsung C&T Corporation will be among the top tier of firms competing for construction projects for the games. [60]
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Looks like Lee Kun-hee just keeps winning. |
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Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| I personally don't care how much of a contribution LG and Samsung have made to the economy, illegal is illegal. As such they need to be fined into bankruptcy court. Something like 300 times their market cap. Heck, if they could break up one of the Chaebols to make an example out of them, all the better. And make sure to throw the CEO's in prison for life. |
Ever hear of the expression "cutting off your nose to spite your face"? |
I think it would be like cutting off your cancerous nose to save your face. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| The real sleaze that shames Korea is the h*re-houses in many busy areas with mothers and daughters walking by them like there is nothing wrong. |
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cmxc
Joined: 19 May 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:48 am Post subject: Are any Korean politicians clean? |
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I am on a quest to find one single clean politician in Korea that is not involved in corruption of one form or another.
Just a scan of the English language Korean newspapers of the past couple of months shows how unbelievably widespread corruption still remains in Korea.
* You have the Seoul school superintendent convicted of bribing an opponent to drop out of the race.
* You have the Korean Foreign Ministry helping a few of its members make a fortune off stocks from a bogus diamond-mine claim in Cameroon.
* You have the string of Financial Supervisory Service officials who were bribed to look the other way as Savings banks' executives looted money for their own purposes and caused a mini-Financial crisis for Korea.
* You have the corrupt tax official who looked the other way at SK group's tax evasion while getting paid billions of won in consulting fees.
* Now today, you have the head of the Korea Communications Commission resign because his close confident and aide was taking bribes.
In my 8 years in Korea I have truly come to love my Korean friends, my Korean wife, and my Korean students, but the corruption is just so endemic I just don't see any hope for the future of this country. |
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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:58 am Post subject: |
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Sleaze in Busan-
By Yun Suh-young
A former prosecutor who received luxury items from a law firm in exchange for peddling her influence in a court ruling was sentenced to three years in prison by a local court, Friday.
The Busan District Court handed down the sentence to the female prosecutor identified only as Lee. It also ordered her to pay a 44.6 million won fine and seized a Chanel bag and clothing she had received as bribes.
�As a prosecutor, she should have retained her integrity as a public servant. Lee, however, took bribes in return for influence peddling. The nature of her crime is very bad,� said the presiding judge upon delivering the ruling. �Therefore, it is proper to sentence the defendant to a prison sentence considering the seriousness of her crime.�
The court added that Lee seemed not to be aware of the severity of her wrongdoings.
She had received 56 million won in cash and valuables from a lawyer surnamed Choi, with whom she was having an affair, for influence peddling in a trial in Oct. 2010. She received luxury items including the use of a Mercedes-Benz leased by Choi�s firm from September that year until May last year. She also spent millions of won with a corporate credit card she received from Choi.
Lee, dubbed �the Mercedes prosecutor,� resigned from her position in November last year. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Boxer wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| I personally don't care how much of a contribution LG and Samsung have made to the economy, illegal is illegal. As such they need to be fined into bankruptcy court. Something like 300 times their market cap. Heck, if they could break up one of the Chaebols to make an example out of them, all the better. And make sure to throw the CEO's in prison for life. |
Ever hear of the expression "cutting off your nose to spite your face"? |
I think it would be like cutting off your cancerous nose to save your face. |
So the whole thing about unemploying hundreds of thousands of people who used to work for the chaebols and collapsing the nation's economy is what exactly? |
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Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Joe Boxer wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| I personally don't care how much of a contribution LG and Samsung have made to the economy, illegal is illegal. As such they need to be fined into bankruptcy court. Something like 300 times their market cap. Heck, if they could break up one of the Chaebols to make an example out of them, all the better. And make sure to throw the CEO's in prison for life. |
Ever hear of the expression "cutting off your nose to spite your face"? |
I think it would be like cutting off your cancerous nose to save your face. |
So the whole thing about unemploying hundreds of thousands of people who used to work for the chaebols and collapsing the nation's economy is what exactly? |
Please, enough with the drama. motiontodismiss suggested big fines and perhaps breaking-up a chaebol. I suggested REAL jail time for corrupt CEOs.
Do you really think that those measures would be enough to cause the unemployment of "hundreds of thousands of people" and collapse the nation's economy? |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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After Obama, champion of "change" bailed-out banks, and continues to chip away at the US constitution and bill of rights, I've pretty much given up on high-level people in my own country. And I'm not picking on Democrats specifically. We all know what came before that.
Just like here, they are looking out only for themselves. Only here, rich Koreans have more control over everything. |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I think a few people need to get off their hight horses and IF they are from the USA, start looking in their own back yard.
I would rate the allegations against George Bush and his cronies and the financial mismanagement of the USA in the credit crisis AS BAD if not worse than anything SOUTH KOREA has to offer.
You guys are just projecting because you cannot solve your pwn problems in house maybe?
There are plenty of people who would rate Clinton as a criminal for some of the things he did before and during his presidency.
Let's not get started on the military industrial complex that is controlling puppet Obama. The man has broken a litany of promises since taking office. I like the way the guy talks but please....
You are moaning about some stock trades and such in SOUTH KOREA while ignoring huge mismanagement of the USA by Republicans and Democrats who have started wars that many people have called internationally illegal.
How many people did those Korean stock trades kill again?
come on guys? You need some perspective... |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Boxer wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Joe Boxer wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| I personally don't care how much of a contribution LG and Samsung have made to the economy, illegal is illegal. As such they need to be fined into bankruptcy court. Something like 300 times their market cap. Heck, if they could break up one of the Chaebols to make an example out of them, all the better. And make sure to throw the CEO's in prison for life. |
Ever hear of the expression "cutting off your nose to spite your face"? |
I think it would be like cutting off your cancerous nose to save your face. |
So the whole thing about unemploying hundreds of thousands of people who used to work for the chaebols and collapsing the nation's economy is what exactly? |
Please, enough with the drama. motiontodismiss suggested big fines and perhaps breaking-up a chaebol. I suggested REAL jail time for corrupt CEOs.
Do you really think that those measures would be enough to cause the unemployment of "hundreds of thousands of people" and collapse the nation's economy? |
Except that wasn't what was suggested. It wasn't just big fines, it was fines into bankruptcy.
Fining LG and Samsung into bankruptcy, how would that not cause unemployment in the 100s of thousands? First, take how many people they employ, then add the people who are not directly are employed, but say are suppliers or retailers, then add in all the people who work in unassociated fields that would lose their jobs because everyone else was out of work. Then add in the market shocks that would occur because two of the biggest companies in Korea went kaput and what that would do to the Korean economy in so many sectors.
I don't think that such a move would be in the best interests of the Korean people. It might be in the best interests of someone with a bone to pick with the Chaebols, but it would not be in the best interests of the Koreans in my opinion. Even massive fines are perhaps not a good idea as it would rob the companies of the capital necessary to stay competitive.
Reform things and send individuals to prison, yes. But you don't bomb the village in order to save it. I fail to see how bankrupting a Chaebol would benefit the lives of ordinary people.
And let's be careful Robespierre before one unleashes a reign of terror on the corrupt powers that be. Such things have a tendency to morph into out of control movements.
The Korean people I believe are willing to endure corruption from the Chaebols so long as they provide employment on a large scale that pays well. If they keep that social compact, then the corruption that may come with it is viewed as necessary. Now if they all start to perform poorly and layoff people en masse then you will probably see everything that you wished for.
As I said, just running in like Yosemite Sam and trying to fine and jail and bankrupt everything in sight with no regard to the consequences is like running into Iraq and declaring that Saddam has to go because he is corrupt and evil. That may be true, but there is the Pottery Barn rule- "You break it, you own it." and again, the Patreus quote- "Tell me how this ends?".
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Haliburton was directed to the OP.
I agree if the Chaebol's had their hands tied, thus would the whole country. |
My bad Floating.
Yeah, the Chaebols are like a wolf you have by the ears. You may not like it, but you dare not let go. |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:58 am Post subject: Re: Are any Korean politicians clean? |
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| cmxc wrote: |
I am on a quest to find one single clean politician in Korea that is not involved in corruption of one form or another.
Just a scan of the English language Korean newspapers of the past couple of months shows how unbelievably widespread corruption still remains in Korea.
* You have the Seoul school superintendent convicted of bribing an opponent to drop out of the race.
* You have the Korean Foreign Ministry helping a few of its members make a fortune off stocks from a bogus diamond-mine claim in Cameroon.
* You have the string of Financial Supervisory Service officials who were bribed to look the other way as Savings banks' executives looted money for their own purposes and caused a mini-Financial crisis for Korea.
* You have the corrupt tax official who looked the other way at SK group's tax evasion while getting paid billions of won in consulting fees.
* Now today, you have the head of the Korea Communications Commission resign because his close confident and aide was taking bribes.
In my 8 years in Korea I have truly come to love my Korean friends, my Korean wife, and my Korean students, but the corruption is just so endemic I just don't see any hope for the future of this country. |
I can't help but think that Korea would have been A LOT better off had it been colonized by the British or French or the Americans or any world power at the time in the late 1800's or not been given independence post WWII. This country's no better than China, and actually China's MORE transparent given that corruption is occasionally punished by death there. I don't care if they hand-built the entire country, lock them up and throw away the key. Or just hang everyone found guilty of corruption.
We're probably looking at another Greece or Argentina or something here in the next 20 years. |
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bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:06 am Post subject: Re: The sleaze that shames Seoul |
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| Julius wrote: |
| plato's republic wrote: |
The sleaze that shames Seoul
By Aidan Foster-Carter
Quite a contrast, aren't they, the two Koreas? One is a weird, weepy-creepy, nasty dynastic dinosaur. |
Your article appears to be written like the blog of some angst-ridden teenager.
The author will have to be a little more refined if he wants to have any credibility. |
Actually, AFC has plenty of credibility, as he is a well-known expert on Korean issues. |
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detonate
Joined: 16 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| Julius is right, the article is hard to read for the wrong reasons. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Are any Korean politicians clean? |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
I can't help but think that Korea would have been A LOT better off had it been colonized by the British or French or the Americans or any world power at the time in the late 1800's or not been given independence post WWII. |
Wait, so Korea being colonized during the height of the Robber Barons and Tammany Hall would reduce corruption????? Who would run Korea, Benjamin Butler?
You must not know your history too well to make a ludicrous suggestion like that.
Yes, because colonization did wonders for India, Africa, Haiti, etc. Between Apartheid and Armistar there's a lot to cheer about.
I think that's an incredibly bigoted and immoral attitude. Korea and its people don't exist for your pleasure and benefit or the benefit of the Western world.
To borrow and paraphrase a line- No matter how bad their own government is, it would be preferable to the good government of an alien power, and there is not a nation on Earth whose people would not feel the same way.
"What do I think of Western civilization? I think it would be a very good idea."- Gandhi
If you believe in colonization of other peoples, you are a barbarian. Uncivilized. This is true.
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| I don't care if they hand-built the entire country, lock them up and throw away the key. Or just hang everyone found guilty of corruption. |
I have a feeling if you hung everyone guilty of corruption, in any country, you'd end up with A LOT of bodies. Corruption hinders commerce and whatnot. IT also makes it go sometimes.
How exactly has Korean corruption affected you to such a point that you want to see people hung? Is this actually about improving the economy or is this a bunch of boiled up spite and rage?
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| We're probably looking at another Greece or Argentina or something here in the next 20 years. |
Maybe, but I should point out that in 20 years England, France, and the USA may very well be every bit an economic basketcase as Greece. |
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