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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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 Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Shimokitazawa wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| As we see by my links professors who are actually qualified to be professors back home can get the same compensation and become involved in the promotion system. |
And many Koreans (and Taiwanese, Chinese and Japanese) go to the U.S., Canada, U.K. and Australia and receive tenure without being citizens of those countries. |
Lets see some examples then. Seriously I am curious. A few names of such Korean profs and where they teach in the US or Canada will do.
Make sure these people are NOT permanent residents however. Just foreign workers on a sponsored work visa will do.
I do mean FULL TENURE TRACK POSITIONS as a PERMANENT Facutly member, including all benefits. |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| big_fella1 wrote: |
| Shimokitazawa wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| As we see by my links professors who are actually qualified to be professors back home can get the same compensation and become involved in the promotion system. |
False. There may be cases here and there, but not many.
You're misleading the readers into believing that this is standard, when it's not. I've worked with people from the U.S. and Canada who were professors back home but put on the same contracts as those with B.A. degrees in Korean universities.
You're not worth any more time discussing the issue. And of course we won't change each other's minds.
And many Koreans (and Taiwanese, Chinese and Japanese) go to the U.S., Canada, U.K. and Australia and receive tenure without being citizens of those countries. |
If you become a professor at an Austrian University, you automatically get Austrian citizenship. |
Ok you will need to back this up as it sounds highly unlikely.
No country I know of grants citizenship to someone based on the jopb they have in the country.
I would think the opposite is true: a person can become a full tenure track prof if they become a citizen (or permanent resident first)..
Checking this site:
http://www.wien.gv.at/english/administration/civilstatus/citizenship/obtain.html
It seems you are wrong.
the only thing that is even remotely close to what you are claiming is here: http://www.wien.gv.at/english/administration/civilstatus/citizenship/discretion.html
I seriously doubt getting hired as a professor is considered an exceptional achievement in Austria.... |
Actually it looks like I might be wrong. Section 25 of the Austrian Citizenship act covered Austrian citizenship for professors from non European Economic Area citizens and their families as you can see at: http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/standardsetting/nationality/National%20legislation/AUSTRIA-En.pdf
However when you look at the Austrian Government Nationality Act at:
http://www.ris.bka.gv.at/GeltendeFassung.wxe?Abfrage=Bundesnormen&Gesetzesnummer=10005579 (German) you will see there is no section 25.
Also I do owe you an apology for being rude in a previous post. I was just very frustrated that I am trying to support my family here and you are saying that it is okay to treat non-Koreans differently to Koreans. This attitude steals from my Korean family as I am their sole financial supporter.
I am sick of racism and nationalism both the positive and the negative, and yes I know as a white foreigner I experience more positive racism than many other people here.
Korea is a great country, but like our home countries it isn't perfect but if we could change the view that positive and negative racism is okay, it would be an even better one. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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First of all, you were not rude, you were just a bit aggressive and from your response I can see why that would be. I understand the pressures you are talking about very well.
As for treatement, if you mean employment options, it is normal that you, as a foreign worker have more limited options vice a citizen. If you are married to a local I assume you are on a residency visa (F-series) so that would be a F2 or a F5 (or the newer visa they are discussing). If you have a F5, and IF you have the same qualifications as the Koreans you work with and IF you do the same job then you should indeed expect similar benefits and compensation. All of this depends on you have the equivalent qualifications and working in the same job as similar Korean co-workers otherwise the comparison is really void and a moot point.
Furthermore, if you are on a F-visa, your options are a lot more varied than someone on a more restrictive sponsored foreign worker visa. For example you can teach private lessons legally and earn a very good living from that along with another job. You can also do other things besides teaching if you have the qualifications for it.
As for changing Korea and the racism (negative aspect) and preferential treatement white foreigners get well that happens over the long term! Heck I was there a comparatively short 11 years and since we left I go back at least once per year and I can honestly say that in that short time span, Korea has changed a heck of a lot!
All you can do is work on your immediate situation which means your work and your circle of friends and Korean in-laws. You cannot change the country, thats up to Koreans as its their country afterall.
Best of luck to you out there anyway.  |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Shimokitazawa wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| As we see by my links professors who are actually qualified to be professors back home can get the same compensation and become involved in the promotion system. |
False. There may be cases here and there, but not many.
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I suggest going back to school and learning the difference between "can" and "will". As my statement stands it is absolutely correct.
As far as not "many" goes there are over 3000 FULL-TIME foreign professors teaching at universities here. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/325872.html
As the article states there were 3432 FULL-TIME foreign professors teaching at universities in South Korea as of 2008
And it would seem that their salary is quite competitive
| Quote: |
| At a minimum in the range of 80 million won, the annual salary for foreign professors is around two times the starting salary for a Korean professor at a national university, |
So as I stated if one has qualifications and experience back home they can do quite well here. If on the other hand all one has is a B.A or Masters and can speak English at a native level then not so much.
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/325872.html
As the article states there were 3432 FULL-TIME foreign professors teaching at universities in South Korea as of 2008
And it would seem that their salary is quite competitive
| Quote: |
| At a minimum in the range of 80 million won, the annual salary for foreign professors is around two times the starting salary for a Korean professor at a national university, |
So as I stated if one has qualifications and experience back home they can do quite well here. If on the other hand all one has is a B.A or Masters and can speak English at a native level then not so much. |
How interesting...see this is what happens when someone injects actual FACTS into a discussion....Well done. |
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Shimokitazawa
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/325872.html
As the article states there were 3432 FULL-TIME foreign professors teaching at universities in South Korea as of 2008
And it would seem that their salary is quite competitive
| Quote: |
| At a minimum in the range of 80 million won, the annual salary for foreign professors is around two times the starting salary for a Korean professor at a national university, |
So as I stated if one has qualifications and experience back home they can do quite well here. If on the other hand all one has is a B.A or Masters and can speak English at a native level then not so much. |
How interesting...see this is what happens when someone injects actual FACTS into a discussion....Well done. |
FACTS?
Give me a break! I don't buy a lot of what I've read there. First, what constitutes a "Professor" in this article? Second, where are all these 80 million a year jobs advertised? I've been watching The Chronicle for years, and other higher ed. recruiting sites and have never seen jobs that pay that much. Nor do I personally know anyone that has ever been paid that kind of money. Do you know anyone that even has a job like this? Probably not, is my guess.
I think there are a lot of questions to be answered here with this article, their sources and how they obtained the data / criteria. Using that as proof or "FACTS"? - Maybe you're the ones who need to go back to school!
Listen, you two can argue with me all you want but the bottom line is Korean universities have created a two-tiered system, one for local teachers and one for foreign instructors, that is essentially academic apartheid. There's a huge push for Korean universities to "globalize" and hire qualified foreign instructors, but they don't want to treat them equally as far as compensation, support and benefits are concerned.
I'm going to repeat what I wrote earlier since some people here can't quite grasp it: Korea is a great place for unqualified western native English speakers to come and teach English and get university conditions.
However, it's a terrible deal for those who are qualified, since Korean universities put these teachers on staff-type contracts where they earn half of what similarly qualified Korean teachers do and receive none of the research support and benefits Korean teachers get while carrying twice the course load - with no full summer or winter vacations!
I'm surprised you would argue that this isn't the case when a quick look around at the job postings for foreign teachers at Korean universities confirms what I've written.
At any rate, the discussion has run its course. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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