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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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 Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
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| Life is a game and politics is a part of life. And in the U.S., more times than not, when you break the rules you face the consequences. |
Right because every time someone has been caught is every time that a crime has been committed.
May I ask why you believe that in the U.S. that more often than not if you are corrupt, you will be caught?
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| Marion Barry? An addict who did six months in prison? |
And came back as mayor.
You're probably the only person who thinks Nixon got the punishment he deserved. Same with Scooter Libby. |
Wrong. Plus, I didn't say I thought that.
Barry did his time and got re-elected. Obviously the voters in Washington, D.C. thought he deserved a second chance. What's corrupt about that?
More often than not, people eventually get caught. Why? Because someone always opens their mouth.
It seems that, in your view, everyone is corrupt and a criminal. People aren't perfect, but that doesn't make them all corrupt or criminals. |
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cmxc
Joined: 19 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:23 pm Post subject: Repeat Chaebol offenders |
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this news story inspired today's blog post on www.kimchicapitalism.com
From Yonhap news
9-year prison term sought for Hanwha chairman
SEOUL, Feb. 2 (Yonhap) -- Prosecutors on Thursday demanded nine years in prison and 150 billion won (US$134 million) in fines for Hanwha Group chairman Kim Seung-youn, who has been charged with using company money to pay back debts of firms he has run under borrowed names.
Kim was indicted last year on breach of trust charges for allegedly spending hundreds of billions of won in company funds from 2004-2006 to repay debts of the firms he secretly ran. The tycoon was also charged with having Hanwha subsidiaries sell some of their shares to his relatives at below market prices.
Kim has denied the charges against him.
In a hearing Thursday, prosecutors demanded the long prison term and hefty fine, stressing that South Korea should break away from the practice of giving lenient punishments to big businessmen out of concern for the impact their punishment could have on the national economy.
"If we continue to fail to punish (tycoons) for one reason or another, our society has no future," a prosecutor said.
The court is scheduled to issue a verdict on Feb. 23. |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:04 am Post subject: |
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9 years is long? If the fine is 150 billion won, chances are he probably embezzled a lot more. That kind of theft would get you 25 years in the US. Lock the guy up for life for all I care.
Anyway it doesn't matter because LMB will probably pardon the guy anyways.  The fact is these people ARE corrupt and they ARE criminals. This is a fact. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| 9 years is long? If the fine is 150 billion won, chances are he probably embezzled a lot more. That kind of theft would get you 25 years in the US. |
You mean like Mark Rich? Halliburton?
| Quote: |
| It seems that, in your view, everyone is corrupt and a criminal. People aren't perfect, but that doesn't make them all corrupt or criminals. |
And you seem to have this mythical belief that everyone in the U.S. gets caught and that the wheels of justice work all the time.
Do you really think that politics works like the way you read about it in the textbooks?
The big difference is that much of the corruption in the U.S. is of the dubiously legal variety in terms of campaign contributions and pork-barrel spending.
To say nothing of corruption at the local level. Tax payer funds used for expensive purchases, corrupt cops.
I mean does the name Daley mean anything to you? |
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Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:03 am Post subject: Re: Repeat Chaebol offenders |
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| cmxc wrote: |
this news story inspired today's blog post on www.kimchicapitalism.com
From Yonhap news
9-year prison term sought for Hanwha chairman
SEOUL, Feb. 2 (Yonhap) -- Prosecutors on Thursday demanded nine years in prison and 150 billion won (US$134 million) in fines for Hanwha Group chairman Kim Seung-youn, who has been charged with using company money to pay back debts of firms he has run under borrowed names.
Kim was indicted last year on breach of trust charges for allegedly spending hundreds of billions of won in company funds from 2004-2006 to repay debts of the firms he secretly ran. The tycoon was also charged with having Hanwha subsidiaries sell some of their shares to his relatives at below market prices.
Kim has denied the charges against him.
In a hearing Thursday, prosecutors demanded the long prison term and hefty fine, stressing that South Korea should break away from the practice of giving lenient punishments to big businessmen out of concern for the impact their punishment could have on the national economy.
"If we continue to fail to punish (tycoons) for one reason or another, our society has no future," a prosecutor said.
The court is scheduled to issue a verdict on Feb. 23. |
Kim Seung-youn?? Again?!?!
The steel pipe-wielding CEO?
Do you think he has the BALLS to show up in court in a wheelchair, again?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c6d4351e-60c8-11dc-8ec0-0000779fd2ac.html#axzz1lK7MIq5S |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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And there are never consequences in Korea?
And there are always consequences in the U.S.? |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
And there are never consequences in Korea?
And there are always consequences in the U.S.? |
There are consequences more frequently in the US than in Korea. The consequences are more severe in the US than in Korea. And people aren't openly and notoriously committing white collar crimes and getting away with it.
Just a few examples in the US in the past decade:
Skilling: Sentenced to 25 years for his role in Enron
Lay: Dead before sentencing, probably would have gotten something similar to Skilling
Ebbers: Sentenced to 25 years for accounting fraud at Worldcom
Madoff: Sentenced to 150 years for ponzi scheme
Rajaratnam: Sentenced to 11 years for insider trading
Healthsouth: sentenced to 3 months-5 years, only because they pled guilty and turned state's witness.
And since they're all in federal prison, none are eligible for parole.
On the other hand, Jeong Mong Koo/Lee Gun Hee got a presidential pardon for their white collar crimes. And Kim Seung Yoon got a pardon for assault with a deadly weapon. LMB is a white collar criminal, and he's president (what the hell were the people thinking?). The only chaebol I know of serving a prison sentence for their white collar crime is the chairman of the former Daewoo Group, who again may have been pardoned while nobody was looking.
For some reason you seem to be condoning and defending the corrupt acts of these people. Did you take money from them or something? |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
And there are never consequences in Korea?
And there are always consequences in the U.S.? |
No answers I see, just more another sophmorical attempt at rhetorical razzamatazz. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
And there are never consequences in Korea?
And there are always consequences in the U.S.? |
There are consequences more frequently in the US than in Korea. The consequences are more severe in the US than in Korea. And people aren't openly and notoriously committing white collar crimes and getting away with it.
Just a few examples in the US in the past decade:
Skilling: Sentenced to 25 years for his role in Enron
Lay: Dead before sentencing, probably would have gotten something similar to Skilling
Ebbers: Sentenced to 25 years for accounting fraud at Worldcom
Madoff: Sentenced to 150 years for ponzi scheme
Rajaratnam: Sentenced to 11 years for insider trading
Healthsouth: sentenced to 3 months-5 years, only because they pled guilty and turned state's witness.
And since they're all in federal prison, none are eligible for parole.
On the other hand, Jeong Mong Koo/Lee Gun Hee got a presidential pardon for their white collar crimes. And Kim Seung Yoon got a pardon for assault with a deadly weapon. LMB is a white collar criminal, and he's president (what the hell were the people thinking?). The only chaebol I know of serving a prison sentence for their white collar crime is the chairman of the former Daewoo Group, who again may have been pardoned while nobody was looking.
For some reason you seem to be condoning and defending the corrupt acts of these people. Did you take money from them or something? |
I'm just noticing the apparent disconnect between this "America: Land of No Corruption" with the ranting I see on the CE forum about America: The Police State. America: Land of the 1% and so on and so on.
Time and time again we hear about Presidential Pardon scandals, Governor's Pardon scandals, and reports coming out after the person is deceased or long gone about how corrupt their tenure was.
You do realize that those Big Kahunas go down, not because of some noble culture, but because some other rich people lost money and have the power to support whatever Headline grabbing U.S. Attorney is going after them.
Of course there is corruption in Korea, but like any country with a multi-party system, the two sides take turns with their games.
Really, you think the U.S. is tough on corruption because of a few headlines?
And if things aren't so corrupt, why the Tea Party and the Occupy movements? |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
And there are never consequences in Korea?
And there are always consequences in the U.S.? |
There are consequences more frequently in the US than in Korea. The consequences are more severe in the US than in Korea. And people aren't openly and notoriously committing white collar crimes and getting away with it.
Just a few examples in the US in the past decade:
Skilling: Sentenced to 25 years for his role in Enron
Lay: Dead before sentencing, probably would have gotten something similar to Skilling
Ebbers: Sentenced to 25 years for accounting fraud at Worldcom
Madoff: Sentenced to 150 years for ponzi scheme
Rajaratnam: Sentenced to 11 years for insider trading
Healthsouth: sentenced to 3 months-5 years, only because they pled guilty and turned state's witness.
And since they're all in federal prison, none are eligible for parole.
On the other hand, Jeong Mong Koo/Lee Gun Hee got a presidential pardon for their white collar crimes. And Kim Seung Yoon got a pardon for assault with a deadly weapon. LMB is a white collar criminal, and he's president (what the hell were the people thinking?). The only chaebol I know of serving a prison sentence for their white collar crime is the chairman of the former Daewoo Group, who again may have been pardoned while nobody was looking.
For some reason you seem to be condoning and defending the corrupt acts of these people. Did you take money from them or something? |
I'm just noticing the apparent disconnect between this "America: Land of No Corruption" with the ranting I see on the CE forum about America: The Police State. America: Land of the 1% and so on and so on.
Time and time again we hear about Presidential Pardon scandals, Governor's Pardon scandals, and reports coming out after the person is deceased or long gone about how corrupt their tenure was.
You do realize that those Big Kahunas go down, not because of some noble culture, but because some other rich people lost money and have the power to support whatever Headline grabbing U.S. Attorney is going after them.
Of course there is corruption in Korea, but like any country with a multi-party system, the two sides take turns with their games.
Really, you think the U.S. is tough on corruption because of a few headlines?
And if things aren't so corrupt, why the Tea Party and the Occupy movements? |
The Tea Party movement has nothing to do with corruption and the OWS movement very little. You're reaching, per your SOP.
You're the one who's been bamboozled by headlines.
And dude, that has to be one of the weakest apologies yet for Korea- a multi-party system is inherently corrupt. Why is that? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:42 am Post subject: |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/14/business/14prosecute.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all
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| But several years after the financial crisis, which was caused in large part by reckless lending and excessive risk taking by major financial institutions, no senior executives have been charged or imprisoned, and a collective government effort has not emerged. |
| Quote: |
But legal experts point to numerous questionable activities where criminal probes might have borne fruit and possibly still could.
Investigators, they argue, could look more deeply at the failure of executives to fully disclose the scope of the risks on their books during the mortgage mania, or the amounts of questionable loans they bundled into securities sold to investors that soured.
Prosecutors also could pursue evidence that executives knowingly awarded bonuses to themselves and colleagues based on overly optimistic valuations of mortgage assets � in effect, creating illusory profits that were wiped out by subsequent losses on the same assets. And they might also investigate whether executives cashed in shares based on inside information, or misled regulators and their own boards about looming problems. |
As the NYT notes there has not been a SINGLE case of a really high flyer being prosecuted for the collapse of the economy.
Certainly nobody on the scale of Kim Seung-youn. Or Jeong-Mong Koo. Or Lee Gun Hee.
At least charges were/are being bought against them as opposed to passively turning a blind eye. So spare us the talk about consequences. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/14/business/14prosecute.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all
| Quote: |
| But several years after the financial crisis, which was caused in large part by reckless lending and excessive risk taking by major financial institutions, no senior executives have been charged or imprisoned, and a collective government effort has not emerged. |
| Quote: |
But legal experts point to numerous questionable activities where criminal probes might have borne fruit and possibly still could.
Investigators, they argue, could look more deeply at the failure of executives to fully disclose the scope of the risks on their books during the mortgage mania, or the amounts of questionable loans they bundled into securities sold to investors that soured.
Prosecutors also could pursue evidence that executives knowingly awarded bonuses to themselves and colleagues based on overly optimistic valuations of mortgage assets � in effect, creating illusory profits that were wiped out by subsequent losses on the same assets. And they might also investigate whether executives cashed in shares based on inside information, or misled regulators and their own boards about looming problems. |
As the NYT notes there has not been a SINGLE case of a really high flyer being prosecuted for the collapse of the economy.
Certainly nobody on the scale of Kim Seung-youn. Or Jeong-Mong Koo. Or Lee Gun Hee.
At least charges were/are being bought against them as opposed to passively turning a blind eye. So spare us the talk about consequences. |
That story is dated April 14. Things have changed since then.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/business/new-housing-task-force-takes-aim-at-wall-st.html?pagewanted=all
But you're presupposing that the economy collapsed due to illegal activity. Last I looked stupidity and greed weren't illegal. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/14/business/14prosecute.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all
| Quote: |
| But several years after the financial crisis, which was caused in large part by reckless lending and excessive risk taking by major financial institutions, no senior executives have been charged or imprisoned, and a collective government effort has not emerged. |
| Quote: |
But legal experts point to numerous questionable activities where criminal probes might have borne fruit and possibly still could.
Investigators, they argue, could look more deeply at the failure of executives to fully disclose the scope of the risks on their books during the mortgage mania, or the amounts of questionable loans they bundled into securities sold to investors that soured.
Prosecutors also could pursue evidence that executives knowingly awarded bonuses to themselves and colleagues based on overly optimistic valuations of mortgage assets � in effect, creating illusory profits that were wiped out by subsequent losses on the same assets. And they might also investigate whether executives cashed in shares based on inside information, or misled regulators and their own boards about looming problems. |
As the NYT notes there has not been a SINGLE case of a really high flyer being prosecuted for the collapse of the economy.
Certainly nobody on the scale of Kim Seung-youn. Or Jeong-Mong Koo. Or Lee Gun Hee.
At least charges were/are being bought against them as opposed to passively turning a blind eye. So spare us the talk about consequences. |
That story is dated April 14. Things have changed since then.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/business/new-housing-task-force-takes-aim-at-wall-st.html?pagewanted=all
But you're presupposing that the economy collapsed due to illegal activity. Last I looked stupidity and greed weren't illegal. |
I am presupposing nothing of the kind. That is what the GOVERNMENT is doing. Otherwise there would be no task force. And no things have not changed all that much...there are still no major prosecutions as the article itself states.
Anyway my point was clear. If in Korea the top 1% are getting prosecuted and sentenced (even if pardoned later on by their cronies in government) that still seems to be better than in the States where it seems so far to be swept under the rug.
This for example does not look serious
| Quote: |
| With only a year left in the president�s term, the task force also has a limited amount of time to produce results. |
Any decent lawyer (and you can bet Wall Street has some of the best) can stonewall or throw up roadblocks until the task force simply runs out of time.
Nor as the article makes clear am I the only skeptic. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
The Tea Party movement has nothing to do with corruption and the OWS movement very little. You're reaching, per your SOP.
You're the one who's been bamboozled by headlines.
And dude, that has to be one of the weakest apologies yet for Korea- a multi-party system is inherently corrupt. Why is that? |
The Tea Party movement and Occupy have nothing to do with Corruption?
This from one movement where many people claim that Obama is not a US Citizen and some sort of Islamo-Communist? and that the Republican Party has sold out its principles?
And the other movement that says that the top 1% are getting away with "Crony Capitalism" and the fleecing of America?
Yeah, doesn't sound like corruption at all to me... |
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