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crisdean
Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Location: Seoul Special City
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 Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
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| Under the ordinance, teachers who try to stop students from perming or dying their hair face punitive measures for restricting their rights. For example, a pupil can file a report against a teacher who "recommends" that the student straightens out the perm. If an investigation finds that this is true, the teacher could be punished. |
Does anyone else find this detail completely ridiculous?
What kind of message does that send in terms of teacher vs student power hierarchy? It's one thing to let students change their hair, but to punish teachers if they mention it? THAT's draconian.
"Min Su, I thought your hair looked better without the perm."
"What? Teacher, you are infringing on my rights and I'm going to file a report. You will be punished...unless you give me an A+"
Insanity.
To think that only a couple years ago teachers could beat students with a stick, but now teachers are punished if they even mention a student's perm.
Where's the balance? |
Yeah, I have a feeling I'm going to be getting myself in trouble over this, I have already, on several occasions, made comments like that when the kids do something horrible to their hair. That weird orangish colour that seems to be popular these days just looks hideously unnatural. |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| The way it is, with hair restrictions and stupid school uniforms the only way they can express themselves is through violence. |
You mean because you have a uniform on you can't write, sing, dance, play an instrument, draw, paint, cook, etc?
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Right, because with the 12 different hagwons these kids go to after school, they actually have time to do any of that?  I think a complete and utter destruction of the hagwon industry might actually do a better job in curbing school violence and improving these kids' mental health (sorry NET's). The pent-up energy has to be released somewhere. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Under the ordinance, teachers who try to stop students from perming or dying their hair face punitive measures for restricting their rights. For example, a pupil can file a report against a teacher who "recommends" that the student straightens out the perm. If an investigation finds that this is true, the teacher could be punished. |
Does anyone else find this detail completely ridiculous? |
Who makes these laws exactly?
I'm guessing its someone who has never set foot in a classroom... |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| The way it is, with hair restrictions and stupid school uniforms the only way they can express themselves is through violence. |
You mean because you have a uniform on you can't write, sing, dance, play an instrument, draw, paint, cook, etc?
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Right, because with the 12 different hagwons these kids go to after school, they actually have time to do any of that? I think a complete and utter destruction of the hagwon industry might actually do a better job in curbing school violence and improving these kids' mental health (sorry NET's). The pent-up energy has to be released somewhere. |
The energy would just as likely be released in violent ways if they had no constructive framework for their time (i.e. hagwons).
There's not major gang issues here probably at least in part because they study all the time or go to hagwons instead of being bored and looking for trouble. Maybe they should have more hagwons in the US. I agree though you don't want to completely burn out the kids but there's got to be balance. |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| The way it is, with hair restrictions and stupid school uniforms the only way they can express themselves is through violence. |
You mean because you have a uniform on you can't write, sing, dance, play an instrument, draw, paint, cook, etc?
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Right, because with the 12 different hagwons these kids go to after school, they actually have time to do any of that? I think a complete and utter destruction of the hagwon industry might actually do a better job in curbing school violence and improving these kids' mental health (sorry NET's). The pent-up energy has to be released somewhere. |
The energy would just as likely be released in violent ways if they had no constructive framework for their time (i.e. hagwons).
There's not major gang issues here probably at least in part because they study all the time or go to hagwons instead of being bored and looking for trouble. Maybe they should have more hagwons in the US. I agree though you don't want to completely burn out the kids but there's got to be balance. |
Instead of hagwons public schools could have extracurricular activities that could be a structured outlet for these types of things. I think the teachers need to start doing their jobs so that the kids don't have to spend 15 hours a day studying. The hagwon industry is the reason I'll never have children in this country. Kids having to spend more than 3 hours a day in a hagwon is child cruelty. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| The way it is, with hair restrictions and stupid school uniforms the only way they can express themselves is through violence. |
You mean because you have a uniform on you can't write, sing, dance, play an instrument, draw, paint, cook, etc?
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Right, because with the 12 different hagwons these kids go to after school, they actually have time to do any of that? I think a complete and utter destruction of the hagwon industry might actually do a better job in curbing school violence and improving these kids' mental health (sorry NET's). The pent-up energy has to be released somewhere. |
The energy would just as likely be released in violent ways if they had no constructive framework for their time (i.e. hagwons).
There's not major gang issues here probably at least in part because they study all the time or go to hagwons instead of being bored and looking for trouble. Maybe they should have more hagwons in the US. I agree though you don't want to completely burn out the kids but there's got to be balance. |
Instead of hagwons public schools could have extracurricular activities that could be a structured outlet for these types of things. I think the teachers need to start doing their jobs so that the kids don't have to spend 15 hours a day studying. The hagwon industry is the reason I'll never have children in this country. Kids having to spend more than 3 hours a day in a hagwon is child cruelty. |
 I think we have different definitions of cruelty. What else are they going to do? Fart around all afternoon everyday and watch cartoons and play computer games like most American kids? Also a lot of those hagwons are for sports, art, or music. Pampering kids and not pushing them enough is bad for them and society too.
I agree the public schools should pick up the slack a bit but it's more a systemic problem than simply the teachers themselves. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| The way it is, with hair restrictions and stupid school uniforms the only way they can express themselves is through violence. |
You mean because you have a uniform on you can't write, sing, dance, play an instrument, draw, paint, cook, etc?
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Right, because with the 12 different hagwons these kids go to after school, they actually have time to do any of that? I think a complete and utter destruction of the hagwon industry might actually do a better job in curbing school violence and improving these kids' mental health (sorry NET's). The pent-up energy has to be released somewhere. |
The energy would just as likely be released in violent ways if they had no constructive framework for their time (i.e. hagwons).
There's not major gang issues here probably at least in part because they study all the time or go to hagwons instead of being bored and looking for trouble. Maybe they should have more hagwons in the US. I agree though you don't want to completely burn out the kids but there's got to be balance. |
Instead of hagwons public schools could have extracurricular activities that could be a structured outlet for these types of things. I think the teachers need to start doing their jobs so that the kids don't have to spend 15 hours a day studying. The hagwon industry is the reason I'll never have children in this country. Kids having to spend more than 3 hours a day in a hagwon is child cruelty. |
So instead of using the time after morning and afternoon classes to lesson plan good material, teachers are getting burned out by teaching the full 8 hours? And are we going to have them work overtime into the evening? Or are we going to hire more teachers? Where is the money going to come from for this? |
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Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:54 am Post subject: |
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Jesus, Korea is heading in the wrong direction.
"Students' rights", Christ. |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| The way it is, with hair restrictions and stupid school uniforms the only way they can express themselves is through violence. |
You mean because you have a uniform on you can't write, sing, dance, play an instrument, draw, paint, cook, etc?
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Right, because with the 12 different hagwons these kids go to after school, they actually have time to do any of that? I think a complete and utter destruction of the hagwon industry might actually do a better job in curbing school violence and improving these kids' mental health (sorry NET's). The pent-up energy has to be released somewhere. |
The energy would just as likely be released in violent ways if they had no constructive framework for their time (i.e. hagwons).
There's not major gang issues here probably at least in part because they study all the time or go to hagwons instead of being bored and looking for trouble. Maybe they should have more hagwons in the US. I agree though you don't want to completely burn out the kids but there's got to be balance. |
Instead of hagwons public schools could have extracurricular activities that could be a structured outlet for these types of things. I think the teachers need to start doing their jobs so that the kids don't have to spend 15 hours a day studying. The hagwon industry is the reason I'll never have children in this country. Kids having to spend more than 3 hours a day in a hagwon is child cruelty. |
So instead of using the time after morning and afternoon classes to lesson plan good material, teachers are getting burned out by teaching the full 8 hours? And are we going to have them work overtime into the evening? Or are we going to hire more teachers? Where is the money going to come from for this? |
The money to hire new teachers can come from actually enforcing the law, collecting taxes, fining people for doing things like littering, and firing incompetent, old, and sometimes criminal teachers. The retirement age for teachers is 63 or something. Lower that to 60 like all the other public sector workers and they'll be hiring teachers by the boatload.
BTW don't kid yourself. Teachers in this country plan lessons? Good material? From what I heard they lecture from the textbook like parrots. Having a teacher coach sports for an hour and a half isn't going to make them any more burned out than deskwarming for that same amount of time. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| [. The hagwon industry is the reason I'll never have children in this country. Kids having to spend more than 3 hours a day in a hagwon is child cruelty. |
So don't send your kids to a hakwon. Problem solved. |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| [. The hagwon industry is the reason I'll never have children in this country. Kids having to spend more than 3 hours a day in a hagwon is child cruelty. |
So don't send your kids to a hakwon. Problem solved. |
Not the only reason. Pollution, overpopulation, the economic clusterf**k, grey communist apartments, the high cost of childcare, insufficient disposable income, and the asinine Korean culture are among the others. I refuse to have children unless I have $300k net of tax in disposible income. Even then I'll only have one. |
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Times30
Joined: 27 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| [. The hagwon industry is the reason I'll never have children in this country. Kids having to spend more than 3 hours a day in a hagwon is child cruelty. |
So don't send your kids to a hakwon. Problem solved. |
Not the only reason. Pollution, overpopulation, the economic clusterf**k, grey communist apartments, the high cost of childcare, insufficient disposable income, and the asinine Korean culture are among the others. I refuse to have children unless I have $300k net of tax in disposible income. Even then I'll only have one. |
Culture is culture. Let's not act like barbarians and be under the assumption one is better than the other.
There are some aspects of Korean culture that are considered "advantageous" while others not so. But then again, what is advantageous is a matter of perspective. We laugh at the crazy notion people should get married before 30 as part of this culture, but it's been well known that after 35 the chances that a woman having a baby diagnosed with autism or downs increases. Having baby's earlier can decrease this chance.
Staying on topic, I see nothing wrong with the economy here. You say insufficient income and high childcare prices, but remember everything is comparative. You have to consider standards of living and not directly prices. Sure diapers in Korea cost more than America, but rent prices are much cheaper in Korea. Not to mention if you put down key money you get it back. Places like America don't even HAVE interest. Go to a bank and ask for something higher than 1%. You'd be lucky to get anything even equal to inflation.
There are other costs to consider, food is much cheaper in Korea. Well, some parts of it at least. And as an English speaking foreigner, you're pretty job secure here.
It's not a terrible place to raise a child and I know several foreigners who do live here raising a child. If anything I consider a child wonderland here. How many countries do you know where you can let your child roam free at 12:00 at night? This country is one of the safest places to raise a kid. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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The purpose of dress codes and school uniforms is to prevent richer kids from making poorer kids feel bad. I'm not sure if this has a good effect, but yes, children can feel deprived if their peers wear flashy clothing and their parents can't afford to keep up.
I'm no expert on this, but I am thinking different modes of dress could be another reason for bullies to pick on classmates.
Here's another take:
According to proponents, school uniforms:
�Help prevent gangs from forming on campus
�Encourage discipline
�Help students resist peer pressure to buy trendy clothes
�Help identify intruders in the school
�Diminish economic and social barriers between students
�Increase a sense of belonging and school pride
�Improve attendance
Opponents contend that school uniforms:
�Violate a student's right to freedom of expression
�Are simply a Band-Aid on the issue of school violence
�Make students a target for bullies from other schools
�Are a financial burden for poor families
�Are an unfair additional expense for parents who pay taxes for a free public education
�Are difficult to enforce in public schools
http://www.greatschools.org/find-a-school/defining-your-ideal/121-school-uniforms.gs
According to one study mentioned in the article, the researcher found that schools with uniform policies improved in attendance, graduation and suspension rates though she could not directly link uniforms to the improvements. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| The way it is, with hair restrictions and stupid school uniforms the only way they can express themselves is through violence. |
You mean because you have a uniform on you can't write, sing, dance, play an instrument, draw, paint, cook, etc?
|
Right, because with the 12 different hagwons these kids go to after school, they actually have time to do any of that? I think a complete and utter destruction of the hagwon industry might actually do a better job in curbing school violence and improving these kids' mental health (sorry NET's). The pent-up energy has to be released somewhere. |
The energy would just as likely be released in violent ways if they had no constructive framework for their time (i.e. hagwons).
There's not major gang issues here probably at least in part because they study all the time or go to hagwons instead of being bored and looking for trouble. Maybe they should have more hagwons in the US. I agree though you don't want to completely burn out the kids but there's got to be balance. |
Instead of hagwons public schools could have extracurricular activities that could be a structured outlet for these types of things. I think the teachers need to start doing their jobs so that the kids don't have to spend 15 hours a day studying. The hagwon industry is the reason I'll never have children in this country. Kids having to spend more than 3 hours a day in a hagwon is child cruelty. |
So instead of using the time after morning and afternoon classes to lesson plan good material, teachers are getting burned out by teaching the full 8 hours? And are we going to have them work overtime into the evening? Or are we going to hire more teachers? Where is the money going to come from for this? |
The money to hire new teachers can come from actually enforcing the law, collecting taxes, fining people for doing things like littering, and firing incompetent, old, and sometimes criminal teachers. The retirement age for teachers is 63 or something. Lower that to 60 like all the other public sector workers and they'll be hiring teachers by the boatload.
BTW don't kid yourself. Teachers in this country plan lessons? Good material? From what I heard they lecture from the textbook like parrots. Having a teacher coach sports for an hour and a half isn't going to make them any more burned out than deskwarming for that same amount of time. |
Wait wait, isn't the "enforcing the law" ticket law supposed to go to making sure the cops aren't bribed and paid higher wages or go to cheaper subways or go to upgrading hte military to deal with that sociopath up North or go to the Reunification savings fund or trim down the debt or...
Why does everyone on Dave's believe in Magic Wand Government? Do people here actually have a clue how democratic bureaucracy works?
Well then why don't you volunteer your non-classroom time to do it?
As for what teachers do, do you actually interact with your teachers? Our teachers are constantly preparing materials and getting stuff ready on top of their other duties.
as for parroting stuff out of the textbook, sorry but that's most teachers. Yes, there are special lessons, but if you will recall your courses from back home, a lot was the text book. A lot. There were some teachers that didn't follow the material, and actually a lot of them weren't very good. Yeah it was fun to discuss some movie we watched, but you didn't really learn anything.
But yes, I assume your planning your volunteer after-school classes right now and instead of deskwarming or lesson-planning, you'll be instead teaching 4 extra classes a day, for no extra pay, right? |
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Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Times30 wrote: |
| Culture is culture. Let's not act like barbarians and be under the assumption one is better than the other. |
Some cultures are quite obviously better than others. While certain societies consider stoning rape victims good practice, others believe universal literacy a goal woth working towards. One of these societies is better than the other, because more people lead happy and productive lives in one type of culture than the other. An extreme example, certainly, but the point is that some aspects of Korean culture can be criticized for decreasing human well-being.
| Quote: |
| This country is one of the safest places to raise a kid. |
I think cultures in which traffic laws are adhered to more consistently are safer: http://www.koreaheral./national/Detail.jsp?newsMLId=20090908000032[/quote] |
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