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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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 Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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I'm with bb. What SPECIFICALLY would you have us do?
Generally speaking, peace-keeping forces are not supposed to IMPOSE peace. They are to keep two (or more) sides apart. At this point in the struggle, any outside force would have to fight the government. That is not 'peace keeping'.
I sympathize with the emotion. I disagree with the idea.
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| Syria a bloodbath. No intervention there as there was none in Bahrain or Yemen either, despite the fact that it's far worse than Libya. |
All or nothing.  Sorry, but that is silly.
You're walking along a river and happen to have a 10' rope over your shoulder. Three people in a boat suddenly overturn. One of them is within 10' and you can save him.
Do you try to save the one you can reach or throw up your hands in despair because you can't save all of them?
I know what I would do. |
You're walking along a river and you see a man trying to escape an alligator. You pass without comment. Further along, you pass another man also being attacked by an alligator. 'What a shame,' you announce, 'but the alligator is actually a good friend of mine'. Then, feeling somewhat embarrassed, you admonish the alligator to exercise restraint. You see yet another man, again being attacked by an alligator. 'We must do something!' you tell the world, and start shooting. Moving on, you pass yet another alligator victim. 'What a shame,' you say. And so on and on.
Is that what you would do?
And, by the way, I think a peace-keeping force to keep protesters and government forces apart would be a good idea. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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In Egypt, the Lure of Leaving
The revolution has led to some instability unfortunately. Good article on the situation in Egypt... |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:25 am Post subject: |
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^ Terrific article, bb. (The last page doesn't display, so I don't know how it comes out.)
I was reminded most of immigrant stories from the late 1800's. We as a country benefited enormously from local political problems in Europe. (When I was a little kid, the TV show 'I Remember Mama' was a hit. About Norwegians in San Francisco. I'm sure the play is somewhere on the internet.)
Overall, I think we gain from the immigration of the most astute and ambitious of the populations of other countries. (There is a lot to be said for genetic determination of behavior.)
For Egypt, I haven't been reading much about it lately. It looks like the army is going to maintain control for a while longer. Then the people will have to rise up again and move things another step. It will help if the Libyans manage to pull off a progressive revolution. It will also help if the Syrians manage a success. |
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Ineverlie&I'malwaysri
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| When I was a little kid, the TV show 'I Remember Mama' was a hit. |
I preferred the horror flick version, "I Dismember Mama." |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
^ Terrific article, bb. (The last page doesn't display, so I don't know how it comes out.)
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From the last page (he's pretty much set on leaving Egypt):
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By the end of July, Ayman and Enas were still in Egypt. A new Egyptian law limited the withdrawal or transfer of large sums out of the country. Ayman�s bank would only allow him to transfer up to $10,000 a month, so he was scrambling to figure out how he could borrow money from friends abroad. He still planned to pursue an asylum case and told me that while Enas�s elderly mother and aunt would stay behind, his niece, Hala would join them. Then came July 29, when Ayman, along with thousands of others, participated in the Friday of Unity, a demonstration intended to gather secularists and Islamists alike in a peaceful, nonreligious show of support for a united Egypt. Instead, Tahrir Square was overrun with tens of thousands of Islamists � members of the Muslim Brotherhood along with more conservative Salafists. The revolutionary slogan �Hold your head up high, you�re Egyptian� was replaced by �Hold your head up high, you�re a Muslim.� Many called for Shariah, or Islamic law, some flew the Saudi flag and others refashioned the Egyptian flag � removing the eagle and replacing it with Islamic inscriptions. Ayman, who went down to the square early in the day with friends, found himself � like many secular and liberal activists � unwelcome. He left after an hour.
A week later, we spoke by phone. �It was like theater,� he said about the dramatic Islamist show of force. �I can�t stay here one more day, even if I love my country.� In the meantime, he told me, he had gotten a little further in his planning. He was figuring out how much money it might take to open a profitable gas station in the United States � �I think something like $350,000� � and was wondering aloud whether he could take out loans once he got to America and secured the necessary papers. �Maybe if we get U.S. citizenship, I can leave the kids and Enas there and come back to work for my country,� he said. �But right now, it�s time for me to go.� |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:12 am Post subject: |
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Poor guy.
He's a real guy with a real family in a really nasty situation. Ideally, he would stay, link up with the progressive elements in the revolt, and push Egypt toward the ideals espoused in the January revolt.
Glad I'm just a keyboard warrior who doesn't have that responsibility. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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Egyptians protesting again
I admire Egyptians for demanding real change and not letting the military off the hook. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:11 am Post subject: |
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^ Ditto.
Clearly, the revolution is in danger of being sidelined by the military ruling council. Just as clearly, people do not want to give up on it.
Aliaa Mahdy's recent symbolic act of posing nude on her blog:
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/273-40/8504-egypts-naked-blogger-is-a-bomb-aimed-at-the-patriarchs-in-our-minds
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| It was in Egypt, after all, that the ruling military junta stripped women of both headscarves (detained female activists were made to strip) and hymens when it subjected them to "virginity tests" last March, by which a soldier inserted two fingers into their vaginal opening. What are the military's "virginity tests", but a cheap tactic to humiliate and silence? When sexual assault parades as a test of the "honour" of virginity, then posing in your parents' home in nothing but stockings, red shoes and a red hair clip is an attack towards all patriarchs out there. |
Western governments should not be supporting the Egyptian military junta at this point. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:01 am Post subject: |
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Yes, things in Egypt are coming to a head just as things in Syria are. The Arab League has booted Syria. The US has withdrawn its ambassador, as has Syria. Juppe went to Ankara last week and said 'the situation is no longer sustainable'. The Arab Autumn may be as interesting as the Arab Spring.
I've read a couple of 'intervene in Syria' posts in the last few days. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Colonel Raid al-Asaad (as compared to Assad, no relation) is the head of the Free Syrian Army. He's calling for a no-fly zone.
We haven�t received any support from any country, Arab or foreign, until now, neither financial nor humanitarian. Only Turkey is supporting the Syrian refugees. We�ve heard a lot about the possibility of creating a no-fly zone, but so far no steps have been taken towards that on the ground. We hope for such an area to be created, because it will help us militarily and will speed the collapse of the regime by increasing the number of defected soldiers.
http://www.salon.com/2011/11/21/meet_syrias_rebel_leader/
This comes from a short interview that is worth reading, if only to keep an eye on developments there. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:18 am Post subject: |
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It's another iffy situation that could easily go wrong, but since the choices that seem to be on offer are a) maintaining dictatorships for the foreseeable future, or b) take a risk on something better, I say cross your fingers, close your eyes, and take the jump.
In the short-term it may not be for the benefit of the US, but it is certainly for the long-term benefit of humankind.
I wish I could be around in a couple of hundred years or so to see what historians think about the Arab Spring. Alas and alack. About a year before it all started, Sec. Clinton said the Middle East had to change or end up buried in the sand (something like that) and a few weeks later Obama went to Cairo. I read his speech to say that the US would no longer support dictators. It would be interesting to know what weight future historians give the speech in shaping events.
Anyway, Go Yemen! |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Egypt to prosecute up to 19 Americans in NGO probe
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The Egyptian government intends to prosecute at least 40 people, including some U.S. citizens, as part of an investigation into nongovernmental organizations that receive foreign funding, state media reported Sunday.
The announcement came a day after Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton warned the Egyptian Foreign Ministry that failure to quickly resolve the probe could jeopardize the more than $1.3 billion Egypt expects to get this year in U.S. aid. |
I somewhat support the prosecution of the Americans, but only because I definitely support cutting off $1.3 billion/year in aid to Egypt. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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Human Rights Watch: Syrian forces torture children
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The Syrian conflict has grown more militarized in recent months as army defectors have joined the uprising against Assad and formed a guerrilla force. The armed resistance has in turn provoked a heavier regime assault on areas where the defectors are fighting.
The United Nations estimated in January that at least 5,400 people have been killed in the crackdown, including soldiers who defected and those who refused orders to fire on civilians. But the U.N. has been unable to update its tally since because the chaos in the country has made it difficult to cross-check the latest figures.
On Friday, Human Rights Watch said in a new report that it has documented at least 12 cases of children detained under "inhumane" conditions and tortured, as well as children shot in their homes or on the street. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
Egypt to prosecute up to 19 Americans in NGO probe
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The Egyptian government intends to prosecute at least 40 people, including some U.S. citizens, as part of an investigation into nongovernmental organizations that receive foreign funding, state media reported Sunday.
The announcement came a day after Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton warned the Egyptian Foreign Ministry that failure to quickly resolve the probe could jeopardize the more than $1.3 billion Egypt expects to get this year in U.S. aid. |
I somewhat support the prosecution of the Americans, but only because I definitely support cutting off $1.3 billion/year in aid to Egypt. |
Sen. Rand Paul Introduces Amendment to end Foreign Aid to Egypt - 2/9/12 |
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