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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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 Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:06 pm Post subject: No Smoking! |
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http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2012/02/117_104741.html
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By Kim Rahn
The local district office governing part of Gangnam Street, southern Seoul, announced Monday that its side of the thoroughfare will become smoke-free from June, with violators being fined 50,000 won.
This is the first time for a local authority to ban smoking in a whole street and collect fines, and is drawing mixed reactions from citizens. Previously, some local governments have designated no-smoking zones in public but couldn�t enforce the ordinance due to a lack of related regulations.
Seocho District said Monday that it will ban smoking on the 934-meter footpath between Exit 9 of Gangnam Station on subway line No. 2 and Exit 6 of Sinnonhyeon Station on line No. 9, as part of efforts to protect people from secondhand smoking.
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I can't see this as being enforceable. If it is enforced that means all the coffee shops will become more polluted  |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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I'm probably one of the most adamant non-smokers out there...but I question the practicality of this.
I think that public education programs have been helping this cause more than this bylaw might. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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I just don't see the logic of banning outdoor smoking in general, let alone banning outdoor smoking while continuing to allow indoor smoking.
Also, being as this is Korea, it's doubtful that this will be rigorously enforced. I can only imagine the twenty-something cop attempting to fine some sixty-year old ajossi. He'll get the ajossi brushoff and it won't end up happening. |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:52 am Post subject: |
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As a former smoker who is not a particular fan of 2nd hand smoke, outside should be the smoking area. Make some exceptions outside schools, hospitals, etc. but in general, if you're outside, that's where you should smoke. It disperses easily and people have room to avoid you.
The only places that should allow smoking indoors are bars. Every other building should be smoke free. In a restaurant, you're usually a captive audience and the airflow isn't good. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:02 am Post subject: |
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The other day I was sitting in a cafe with a smoking section. They were on their side of the glass, I was on mine.
Had absolutely no problem with that. So long as the ventilation is good, it seems like a civil solution in many cases. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:14 am Post subject: |
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| Its enforceable. They have people ticketing "littering" by all the subway stations in Gangnam and Seocho. I had one guy follow me out of a department store for 2 blocks. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| Just cross the street (for now). |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| akcrono wrote: |
As a former smoker who is not a particular fan of 2nd hand smoke, outside should be the smoking area. Make some exceptions outside schools, hospitals, etc. but in general, if you're outside, that's where you should smoke. It disperses easily and people have room to avoid you.
The only places that should allow smoking indoors are bars. Every other building should be smoke free. In a restaurant, you're usually a captive audience and the airflow isn't good. |
As a current smoker, I'm in agreement with this.
As I've said before, I do really like the Taiwanese solution. Anywhere that opens its doors at nine or later is a smoking area, anywhere that opens prior to that is not. Essentially, it makes it so establishments that exist solely for the sake of drinking can allow smoking. Those that do not can't. The Singaporean solution is also fairly solid, wherein bars are permitted to have smoking rooms so long as they are well ventilated (kind of what Captain Corea is going for). Regardless, banning smoking outdoors just seems unscientific and a bit absurd, though I'm sure some avid anti-smokers will jump all over me for that one. |
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L&MaC's
Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Location: Ittoqqortoormiit
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:43 am Post subject: |
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seems like they need to raise some cash..
50,000won for smoking on the footpath is cheap compared to western countries in areas where smoking is prohibited..
however the funny thing is, it's only a 30,000won fine for smoking underground in a subway station or on a subway train. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| I just don't see the logic of banning outdoor smoking in general, let alone banning outdoor smoking while continuing to allow indoor smoking. |
K-logic strikes once more. The intention is good, but they clearly didn't think about it properly.  |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| I just don't see the logic of banning outdoor smoking in general, let alone banning outdoor smoking while continuing to allow indoor smoking. |
K-logic strikes once more. The intention is good, but they clearly didn't think about it properly. |
We're talking about the Korean government. What do you expect?  I've come to expect nothing but incompetence and red tape when it comes to bureaucrats because they can never be fired so they have no incentive to be competent at what they're doing  |
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littlelisa
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| akcrono wrote: |
As a former smoker who is not a particular fan of 2nd hand smoke, outside should be the smoking area. Make some exceptions outside schools, hospitals, etc. but in general, if you're outside, that's where you should smoke. It disperses easily and people have room to avoid you.
The only places that should allow smoking indoors are bars. Every other building should be smoke free. In a restaurant, you're usually a captive audience and the airflow isn't good. |
As a current smoker, I'm in agreement with this.
As I've said before, I do really like the Taiwanese solution. Anywhere that opens its doors at nine or later is a smoking area, anywhere that opens prior to that is not. Essentially, it makes it so establishments that exist solely for the sake of drinking can allow smoking. Those that do not can't. The Singaporean solution is also fairly solid, wherein bars are permitted to have smoking rooms so long as they are well ventilated (kind of what Captain Corea is going for). Regardless, banning smoking outdoors just seems unscientific and a bit absurd, though I'm sure some avid anti-smokers will jump all over me for that one. |
I think you have to look at it on a place-by-place basis. Nobody is saying ban smoking everywhere outside. But just cause it's outside, it doesn't mean it's necessarily a good place for smoking. Most outside places are, but not all. For example, immediately in front of doorways is a horrible place because smoke just rushes in the door and smokers block exits. Bus stops are bad because it is making others waiting for the bus either move out or smell the smoke.
Gangnam on that particular stretch... which isn't that long, you know, is very crowded almost all the time. When it is crowded, it's not a good place for smoke. I think Japan banned smoking on some busy streets too because of the combination of smoke that people couldn't really move out of the way of easily because of too many people, and burns from cigarettes at hip level. But nobody is saying no smoking anywhere outdoors, but on ONE side of a street in a relatively small, busy stretch of sidewalk... well, I don't think that it's such a bad idea. Smokers can cross the street and still smoke, for example, or smoke on nearly every other street. Here and there on a busy stretch, I think it's not so bad. I can see the logic, though I think other things more important... like I would sooner see smoke-free bars, for example. |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| littlelisa wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| akcrono wrote: |
As a former smoker who is not a particular fan of 2nd hand smoke, outside should be the smoking area. Make some exceptions outside schools, hospitals, etc. but in general, if you're outside, that's where you should smoke. It disperses easily and people have room to avoid you.
The only places that should allow smoking indoors are bars. Every other building should be smoke free. In a restaurant, you're usually a captive audience and the airflow isn't good. |
As a current smoker, I'm in agreement with this.
As I've said before, I do really like the Taiwanese solution. Anywhere that opens its doors at nine or later is a smoking area, anywhere that opens prior to that is not. Essentially, it makes it so establishments that exist solely for the sake of drinking can allow smoking. Those that do not can't. The Singaporean solution is also fairly solid, wherein bars are permitted to have smoking rooms so long as they are well ventilated (kind of what Captain Corea is going for). Regardless, banning smoking outdoors just seems unscientific and a bit absurd, though I'm sure some avid anti-smokers will jump all over me for that one. |
I think you have to look at it on a place-by-place basis. Nobody is saying ban smoking everywhere outside. But just cause it's outside, it doesn't mean it's necessarily a good place for smoking. Most outside places are, but not all. For example, immediately in front of doorways is a horrible place because smoke just rushes in the door and smokers block exits. Bus stops are bad because it is making others waiting for the bus either move out or smell the smoke.
Gangnam on that particular stretch... which isn't that long, you know, is very crowded almost all the time. When it is crowded, it's not a good place for smoke. I think Japan banned smoking on some busy streets too because of the combination of smoke that people couldn't really move out of the way of easily because of too many people, and burns from cigarettes at hip level. But nobody is saying no smoking anywhere outdoors, but on ONE side of a street in a relatively small, busy stretch of sidewalk... well, I don't think that it's such a bad idea. Smokers can cross the street and still smoke, for example, or smoke on nearly every other street. Here and there on a busy stretch, I think it's not so bad. I can see the logic, though I think other things more important... like I would sooner see smoke-free bars, for example. |
I'll give you a 2 meter halo around doors and bus stops. Far enough that the dose of smoke, if any will be minuscule. As for busy streets, maybe it should just be courtesy to avoid them when smoking, but simply blowing the smoke up should be enough to drop smoke levels. |
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littlelisa
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| akcrono wrote: |
| littlelisa wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| akcrono wrote: |
As a former smoker who is not a particular fan of 2nd hand smoke, outside should be the smoking area. Make some exceptions outside schools, hospitals, etc. but in general, if you're outside, that's where you should smoke. It disperses easily and people have room to avoid you.
The only places that should allow smoking indoors are bars. Every other building should be smoke free. In a restaurant, you're usually a captive audience and the airflow isn't good. |
As a current smoker, I'm in agreement with this.
As I've said before, I do really like the Taiwanese solution. Anywhere that opens its doors at nine or later is a smoking area, anywhere that opens prior to that is not. Essentially, it makes it so establishments that exist solely for the sake of drinking can allow smoking. Those that do not can't. The Singaporean solution is also fairly solid, wherein bars are permitted to have smoking rooms so long as they are well ventilated (kind of what Captain Corea is going for). Regardless, banning smoking outdoors just seems unscientific and a bit absurd, though I'm sure some avid anti-smokers will jump all over me for that one. |
I think you have to look at it on a place-by-place basis. Nobody is saying ban smoking everywhere outside. But just cause it's outside, it doesn't mean it's necessarily a good place for smoking. Most outside places are, but not all. For example, immediately in front of doorways is a horrible place because smoke just rushes in the door and smokers block exits. Bus stops are bad because it is making others waiting for the bus either move out or smell the smoke.
Gangnam on that particular stretch... which isn't that long, you know, is very crowded almost all the time. When it is crowded, it's not a good place for smoke. I think Japan banned smoking on some busy streets too because of the combination of smoke that people couldn't really move out of the way of easily because of too many people, and burns from cigarettes at hip level. But nobody is saying no smoking anywhere outdoors, but on ONE side of a street in a relatively small, busy stretch of sidewalk... well, I don't think that it's such a bad idea. Smokers can cross the street and still smoke, for example, or smoke on nearly every other street. Here and there on a busy stretch, I think it's not so bad. I can see the logic, though I think other things more important... like I would sooner see smoke-free bars, for example. |
I'll give you a 2 meter halo around doors and bus stops. Far enough that the dose of smoke, if any will be minuscule. As for busy streets, maybe it should just be courtesy to avoid them when smoking, but simply blowing the smoke up should be enough to drop smoke levels. |
Sounds fair. That would make me happy. ^^
I'm not saying that busy streets must be non-smoking, I am just thinking of the reasons why they decided it that way, and that it's good to keep in mind that it's a very small stretch of sidewalk, not all of the outdoors. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| littlelisa wrote: |
I think you have to look at it on a place-by-place basis. Nobody is saying ban smoking everywhere outside. But just cause it's outside, it doesn't mean it's necessarily a good place for smoking. Most outside places are, but not all. For example, immediately in front of doorways is a horrible place because smoke just rushes in the door and smokers block exits. Bus stops are bad because it is making others waiting for the bus either move out or smell the smoke.
Gangnam on that particular stretch... which isn't that long, you know, is very crowded almost all the time. When it is crowded, it's not a good place for smoke. I think Japan banned smoking on some busy streets too because of the combination of smoke that people couldn't really move out of the way of easily because of too many people, and burns from cigarettes at hip level. But nobody is saying no smoking anywhere outdoors, but on ONE side of a street in a relatively small, busy stretch of sidewalk... well, I don't think that it's such a bad idea. Smokers can cross the street and still smoke, for example, or smoke on nearly every other street. Here and there on a busy stretch, I think it's not so bad. I can see the logic, though I think other things more important... like I would sooner see smoke-free bars, for example. |
This is all logical, but I've read elsewhere that Seoul's government has proposed banning smoking on the street everywhere, which is just straight crazy. |
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