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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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 Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:39 am Post subject: |
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its funny that he says chatting and smoking. thats all that Koreans now seem to do (if not studying). change smoking for drinking coffee or cheap coffee.
ive never really a local Id say is really busy, if hes not a student. thats a generalization, but I think it holds true.
well, i guess this is all a reaction of being controlled by the yangban/kings/whatever is now (parents? hagwons? bosses). Unmotivated to do much of anything, but chatting is easy. I listen to the conversations all the time, and I can recall anything remotely interesting Ive ever heard. Ha.
Guys who want to show off love to compare Korea and some country they went to for a week.
ok, im off for a run, and to write some music, and learn something new, ALL ON MY OWN gasp! |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
Well, it's no secret that Jack London developed some pretty extreme political views when he became rich (and sank deep into the bottle and became addicted to morphine).
It's quite ironic that he's best remembered today for writing a children's stories about dogs. |
Hardly. Call of he Wild and White Fang are fabulous stories of endurance in the Yukon. Just because White Fang was made into a kid's movie doesn't make the novel a children's story.
Speaking of movies, rather than waste your money on the most recent (and awful) movie about northern isolation and harship (The Grey) pick up London's Call of the Wild. A fascinating and very different type of novel. |
I read them as a child. To me they are children's stories. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| everything-is-everything wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
Gotta love the classic false inferences.
So being an addict automatically makes you a bad person and someone whose philosophical, scientfic or and philosophical views are invallid? |
No, but I often take what crack-heads say with a grain of salt. |
Some of the most amazing minds in history have been adicts or mentally unstable.
You're missing out C.C. |
Doesn't make Jack London's political views any less questionable. He was a socialist who complained about his immigrant employees, a guy who called for racial harmony and genocide... See what I mean? |
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| everything-is-everything wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| The Floating World wrote: |
Gotta love the classic false inferences.
So being an addict automatically makes you a bad person and someone whose philosophical, scientfic or and philosophical views are invallid? |
No, but I often take what crack-heads say with a grain of salt. |
Some of the most amazing minds in history have been adicts or mentally unstable.
You're missing out C.C. |
It's so true.  |
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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| 12ax7 wrote: |
| Smithington wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
Well, it's no secret that Jack London developed some pretty extreme political views when he became rich (and sank deep into the bottle and became addicted to morphine).
It's quite ironic that he's best remembered today for writing a children's stories about dogs. |
Hardly. Call of he Wild and White Fang are fabulous stories of endurance in the Yukon. Just because White Fang was made into a kid's movie doesn't make the novel a children's story.
Speaking of movies, rather than waste your money on the most recent (and awful) movie about northern isolation and harship (The Grey) pick up London's Call of the Wild. A fascinating and very different type of novel. |
I read them as a child. To me they are children's stories. |
Your statemnents are more indicative of someone with a limited capacity to evaluate the true quality and depth of things.
Me and a few million others will side with London, and u can continue to view them as merely children's stories.
And back to the original point, Joseon blows whether London's views are included or not. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| Dave Chance wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| Smithington wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
Well, it's no secret that Jack London developed some pretty extreme political views when he became rich (and sank deep into the bottle and became addicted to morphine).
It's quite ironic that he's best remembered today for writing a children's stories about dogs. |
Hardly. Call of he Wild and White Fang are fabulous stories of endurance in the Yukon. Just because White Fang was made into a kid's movie doesn't make the novel a children's story.
Speaking of movies, rather than waste your money on the most recent (and awful) movie about northern isolation and harship (The Grey) pick up London's Call of the Wild. A fascinating and very different type of novel. |
I read them as a child. To me they are children's stories. |
Your statemnents are more indicative of someone with a limited capacity to evaluate the true quality and depth of things.
Me and a few million others will side with London, and u can continue to view them as merely children's stories.
And back to the original point, Joseon blows whether London's views are included or not. |
I lack the ability to evaluate the true quality and depth of things?
I read Germinal and Les Mis�rables in French when I was 13, The Metamorphosis (Die Verwandlung) in German when I was 18.
The Call of the Wild and White Fang are children's stories, in comparison. Yes, I enjoyed them, Call of the Wild in particular, but it remains that it's not particularly heady material. |
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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| 12ax7 wrote: |
| Dave Chance wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| Smithington wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
Well, it's no secret that Jack London developed some pretty extreme political views when he became rich (and sank deep into the bottle and became addicted to morphine).
It's quite ironic that he's best remembered today for writing a children's stories about dogs. |
Hardly. Call of he Wild and White Fang are fabulous stories of endurance in the Yukon. Just because White Fang was made into a kid's movie doesn't make the novel a children's story.
Speaking of movies, rather than waste your money on the most recent (and awful) movie about northern isolation and harship (The Grey) pick up London's Call of the Wild. A fascinating and very different type of novel. |
I read them as a child. To me they are children's stories. |
Your statemnents are more indicative of someone with a limited capacity to evaluate the true quality and depth of things.
Me and a few million others will side with London, and u can continue to view them as merely children's stories.
And back to the original point, Joseon blows whether London's views are included or not. |
I lack the ability to evaluate the true quality and depth of things?
I read Germinal and Les Mis�rables in French when I was 13, The Metamorphosis (Die Verwandlung) in German when I was 18.
The Call of the Wild and White Fang are children's stories, in comparison. Yes, I enjoyed them, Call of the Wild in particular, but it remains that it's not particularly heady material. |
And I'm sure you truly grasped the complexities of those works at those ages, which is why u are carrying on the way u are here, and are unable to address the original point 
U also whiff on the point that London's stories are of a totally different genre and approach to human experience and knowledge, and therefore not really comparable. To an outdoors adventure-oriented person who explores nature at its outermost reaches, London's works are indeed "heady material". |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Well it's pretty clear that London was a great writer and that the Joseon era-sucked.
Whether his insights then are reflective of the current state now is debatable.
| Quote: |
| ok, im off for a run, and to write some music, and learn something new, ALL ON MY OWN gasp! |
Yeah, us foreigners are at least independent. After all, we are the employers, not the employees and we own the deposits on our domiciles.
You're showing them. |
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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Well it's pretty clear that London was a great writer and that the Joseon era-sucked.
Whether his insights then are reflective of the current state now is debatable.
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Hey, Steel, whaddup.
Well, I do think what I quoted on the first page of this thread does a ring a bell with a lot of people today as well-
http://kyujanggak.snu.ac.kr/MOK/CONVIEW.jsp?type=HEJ&ptype=list&subtype=ym&lclass=&mclass=&sclass=&ntype=ym&cn=GK07644_00
A collection of tales written by Yeonam Bak Ji-won (1737-1805), who was a thinker of the Silhak (�Practical Learning�) school and writer during the latter half of the Joseon Dynasty.The seven stories included here are �A Tiger�s Rebuke,� �Tale of Literary Licentiate [Sheng Yuan] Heo,� �Tale of Faithful Women,� �Tale of a Yangban [Confucian Aristocrat],� �One Thousand Characters,� �Why the Concise History [Shi L�e] Cannot Be Read,� and �Why the Essence of the Comprehensive Mirror [Tong Jian Jie Yao] Cannot Be Read.�In the �Tale of a Yangban,� the author castigates the Confucian aristocracy as useless thieves who, with their many undeserved privileges, prey on the masses. In �Why the Concise History Cannot Be Read,� he states that the Chinese chronicle is not good as a primer because its overwhelming scope forces children to memorize masses of information instead of allowing them to expand their knowledge gradually through an understanding of one character or phrase at a time. In �Why the Essence of the Comprehensive Mirror Cannot Be Read,� the author likewise claims that it is neither useful nor educative to have children spend an entire year (he establishes 300 days as the maximum possible time for their studies per year) on reading the fifteen-volume Essence of the Comprehensive Mirror, especially considering that this period is crucial to learning, which begins at the age of seven. |
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komerican
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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Jack London was working for William Hearst whose papers were at the epicenter of the Yellow Journalism (yellow because the comics were yellow in these newspapers) that was common at that time.
I seriously doubt that London could have printed anything that veered too much from what the US government wanted to be printed about Korea, i.e., that Korea was incapable of independence. London actually wrote a series of anti-Japanese articles but since they went against US policy they were not published. Oh well!
It�s interesting how some Westerners, a century later, read these same manufactured news, and are just as easily manipulated. hahaha. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave Chance wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Well it's pretty clear that London was a great writer and that the Joseon era-sucked.
Whether his insights then are reflective of the current state now is debatable.
|
Hey, Steel, whaddup.
Well, I do think what I quoted on the first page of this thread does a ring a bell with a lot of people today as well-
http://kyujanggak.snu.ac.kr/MOK/CONVIEW.jsp?type=HEJ&ptype=list&subtype=ym&lclass=&mclass=&sclass=&ntype=ym&cn=GK07644_00
A collection of tales written by Yeonam Bak Ji-won (1737-1805), who was a thinker of the Silhak (�Practical Learning�) school and writer during the latter half of the Joseon Dynasty.The seven stories included here are �A Tiger�s Rebuke,� �Tale of Literary Licentiate [Sheng Yuan] Heo,� �Tale of Faithful Women,� �Tale of a Yangban [Confucian Aristocrat],� �One Thousand Characters,� �Why the Concise History [Shi L�e] Cannot Be Read,� and �Why the Essence of the Comprehensive Mirror [Tong Jian Jie Yao] Cannot Be Read.�In the �Tale of a Yangban,� the author castigates the Confucian aristocracy as useless thieves who, with their many undeserved privileges, prey on the masses. In �Why the Concise History Cannot Be Read,� he states that the Chinese chronicle is not good as a primer because its overwhelming scope forces children to memorize masses of information instead of allowing them to expand their knowledge gradually through an understanding of one character or phrase at a time. In �Why the Essence of the Comprehensive Mirror Cannot Be Read,� the author likewise claims that it is neither useful nor educative to have children spend an entire year (he establishes 300 days as the maximum possible time for their studies per year) on reading the fifteen-volume Essence of the Comprehensive Mirror, especially considering that this period is crucial to learning, which begins at the age of seven. |
Of course we cannot equate Joseon in that era with South korea of today, even though we might see tiny wollow the whisps like slivers of certain traits from time to time. Totally different animal. One can think of hardly if any countires that have changed just so damned much in such short a time. Japan of course is comparable, but I can't think of many more.
That author you just quoted should be made mandatory reading for educators and parents in SK.
The KETs in the public school English classes STILL insist on the kids learning words by memorisation over phonetical recognition and whilst steel, we havehad this one out before, and you did raise some salient points about the queer nature of English phoneitcs and their mysteriously shifting ways, I think we can agree that over all just learning to spell is better than mere memorisation.
One also has to bear in mind re Jack London, the era he was from when judging him as racist or imperialist etc. Cooperation between nations or globalisation was not really a concept yet and it was seen as a big contest (it still is one but we are just lead to beleive it is not nowadays).... |
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everything-is-everything
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| komerican wrote: |
Jack London was working for William Hearst whose papers were at the epicenter of the Yellow Journalism (yellow because the comics were yellow in these newspapers) that was common at that time.
I seriously doubt that London could have printed anything that veered too much from what the US government wanted to be printed about Korea, i.e., that Korea was incapable of independence. London actually wrote a series of anti-Japanese articles but since they went against US policy they were not published. Oh well!
It�s interesting how some Westerners, a century later, read these same manufactured news, and are just as easily manipulated. hahaha. |
Are you actually sticking up for the Josun Dynasty? |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave Chance wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| Dave Chance wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| Smithington wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
Well, it's no secret that Jack London developed some pretty extreme political views when he became rich (and sank deep into the bottle and became addicted to morphine).
It's quite ironic that he's best remembered today for writing a children's stories about dogs. |
Hardly. Call of he Wild and White Fang are fabulous stories of endurance in the Yukon. Just because White Fang was made into a kid's movie doesn't make the novel a children's story.
Speaking of movies, rather than waste your money on the most recent (and awful) movie about northern isolation and harship (The Grey) pick up London's Call of the Wild. A fascinating and very different type of novel. |
I read them as a child. To me they are children's stories. |
Your statemnents are more indicative of someone with a limited capacity to evaluate the true quality and depth of things.
Me and a few million others will side with London, and u can continue to view them as merely children's stories.
And back to the original point, Joseon blows whether London's views are included or not. |
I lack the ability to evaluate the true quality and depth of things?
I read Germinal and Les Mis�rables in French when I was 13, The Metamorphosis (Die Verwandlung) in German when I was 18.
The Call of the Wild and White Fang are children's stories, in comparison. Yes, I enjoyed them, Call of the Wild in particular, but it remains that it's not particularly heady material. |
And I'm sure you truly grasped the complexities of those works at those ages, which is why u are carrying on the way u are here, and are unable to address the original point
U also whiff on the point that London's stories are of a totally different genre and approach to human experience and knowledge, and therefore not really comparable. To an outdoors adventure-oriented person who explores nature at its outermost reaches, London's works are indeed "heady material". |
Yes, I did grasp those stories. And don't assume that because I enjoy reading that I'm not an "outdoors adventure-oriented person". I've served as a mountain guide for Canadian and American soldiers, and a variety of other VIPs who've come to Korea.
Again, read up more on Jack London. You'll see that your image of him, the adventurous reporter, is only one facet of his personality. |
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warmachinenkorea
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
Well, it's no secret that Jack London developed some pretty extreme political views when he became rich (and sank deep into the bottle and became addicted to morphine).
It's quite ironic that he's best remembered today for writing a children's stories about dogs. |
Hardly. Call of he Wild and White Fang are fabulous stories of endurance in the Yukon. Just because White Fang was made into a kid's movie doesn't make the novel a children's story.
Speaking of movies, rather than waste your money on the most recent (and awful) movie about northern isolation and harship (The Grey) pick up London's Call of the Wild. A fascinating and very different type of novel. |
The Grey is a good movie! I isn't about Northern isolation and hardship. It's more about a man (or the human race) and his battles with the past present and future. Not about battling the Yukon. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that there are still lingering facets of the Josun past. But whether they are dominant parts is debatable. It's a bit like saying the American South is still one big neo-Confederate plantation. Well there are traces of that, but no its nothing like that.
I mean you have so many entrepreneurs and small business owners here that for someone to say that they are unmotivated to work for their superiors is a bit puzzling.
As for Jack London, Call of the Wild was a great read. So what if it's not high art? So what if the guy was a morphine-addled bigot? That doesn't mean those books weren't great. Now does that make Jack London an insightful anthropologist and not a bigot? No. But I don't think anyone could argue that that time wasn't a decline phase in Korean history. All empires have their moments of decline and sloth and that was Korea's. |
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