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tanklor1
Joined: 13 Jun 2006
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 Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Ppppffffttttt....
I teach Saturdays. I don't know what ya'll be complaining about. |
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Skippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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Once again. I understand the demand for Saturdays. I do not fault Hagwons for wanting to do it. It is business. Demand is there, they need to supply it.
Heck I am likely willing to do them. Yet, I expect to see stupidity from Hagwons. Teachers, too.
I mean I can think of various ways to integrate Saturday classes in.
Case One
If you are a medium sized school with a couple of waygook teachers then alternate. Let's say 4 teachers. 2 Work Monday to Friday, 2 work to Tuesday to Saturday. Maybe some of the teachers might not be the weekend going out type to late. Another variation with this one is switch it up every few month. So the 2 that did M-F then next semester get T-S.
Case Two
Throw money at it. Simple put say you teach Saturdays, we will pay the overtime rate. The more the pay, the more greed will override lazy.
Case Three
Spread it out. Typical contract is 30 hours a week. So most days will be at least 6 hours of classes. If you spread it out over 6 days - 5 hours. But spread it out but keep the daytime compact. Meaning if a person works basically from 3 to 8 everyday with no BS breaks or deskwarming, people will be more likely to do it. Some people might like just having a nice simple schedule.
Case Four
Extra Days Off.... I knew one school years ago had an extra vacation day set up. Basically all teachers worked M-S but once a month they got an extended long weekend of 3 or 4 days. School typically planned it out to revolve around red days. This I thought was ok. It would be good for those that want to explore Korea, because sometimes 2 days is not enough. So the ability once a month to get some extra time to see the country properly and not rushed.
BUT...
Overall my experience with Hagwons it will not be that way. They will be the classic bully and just demand demand demand. Not the brightest when it comes to management or employee relations. Simple put is make it worth our while and we will make it work. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| duke of new york wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| duke of new york wrote: |
| Don't these people have contracts that specify Saturdays and Sundays are not part of your work schedule? Then all they have to do is say no. Say you have plans, you take Korean classes or gayageum lessons on Saturdays or something. |
If the parents demand weekend classes as a result of the government school changes then hogwans will have to offer them in order to remain in business - this is as it should be.
Any school so affected will have to provide teachers for those weekend classes. They will either shift current teachers to cover those hours or replace current teachers who refuse with others who will work those hours.
Teachers who do not want to provide the services required will find themselves terminated (most contracts have terms to allow this). A contract may prevent them from being required to work weekends but it won't keep them employed if working weekends becomes essential to the survival of the school. These teachers will be free to seek employment at schools that do not require weekend hours. |
I am quite sure this is not true, not under the terms I was talking about. If your contract specifies that your working hours do not include Saturdays, you have every right to refuse to work on Saturdays, whether your employer considers it necessary or not. Even if the hagwon's needs change, the contract is the same. Your employer cannot legally fire you for refusing to do something your contract expressly says you don't have to do. Of course, that doesn't mean they won't fire you, but you will have legal recourse if they do. |
Actually, most contracts have a clause that allows either party to terminate the contract for any reason or no reason with the appropriate notice.
The employer does not need to provide any warnings or any reason as long as this notice equals or exceeds the 30 days required by labor rules for employers and meets the terms of the contract. The termination is then proper and legal, there is no wrongful termination and the employee has no legal recourse. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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If you are worried about working on Saturdays...simply work for a public school.
I don't know of a single P.S contract that says you may have to work on Saturdays. In fact all the P.S contracts explicitly state you don't have to work on weekends. So basically nothing is going to change for the average foreign teacher who works for a P.S. |
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plchron
Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| That didn't stop my PS from 'asking' me to come in one saturday for parent/ evaluation day. I told them no and then they decided to evaluate me on a weekday, using an unreal class (they mixed the kids that don't know ABC's in with the kids that are intermediate-highly leveled. Totally thought that they were going to try and screw me somehow. it had all the classic warning signs of a setup. So i just spent 20,000 at the local supermarket and taught all the kids sandwich vocabulary and then they all ordered from me in english and I made their sandwiches. Most BS 'class' ever. Got excellent reviews from everyone though. I won't give my school extra, but i'll hook the kids up. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
[
Actually, most contracts have a clause that allows either party to terminate the contract for any reason or no reason with the appropriate notice.
The employer does not need to provide any warnings or any reason as long as this notice equals or exceeds the 30 days required by labor rules for employers and meets the terms of the contract. The termination is then proper and legal, there is no wrongful termination and the employee has no legal recourse. |
Untrue.
| Quote: |
RESTRICTIONS ON DISMISSALS
Employers cannot dismiss employees without justifiable causes. If dismissed without justifiable causes, an employee can apply for redress to a Labor Relations Commission. Employers may be subject to punishment for any unjustifiable dismissal.
If an employer wants to dismiss his/her workers for managerial reasons, the employer should meet strict conditions and procedures. First of all, the employer should have urgent managerial reasons, make every effort to avoid such dismissal, select those to be dismissed by rational and fair standards, and sincerely consult with the trade union or workers' representatives in advance.
On the other hand, even when an employer dismisses his/her workers for justifiable reasons, the employer must notify the workers concerned of dismissal at least 30 days in advance. Otherwise, the employer should pay the workers 30 days or more of ordinary wages. |
http://www.helplinelaw.com/article/south%20korea/155
Labor laws supersede any contract or any clause that is does not meet the standards set out by said labor laws.
| Quote: |
16. What protection do employees have against wrongful or un-fair dismissal?
An employer cannot dismiss, lay off, suspend or transfer an em-ployee without just cause (
Article 23, LSA
). Just cause is notdefined in the LSA, making its application largely subjective.Generally, it exists in only two circumstances:
Fault attributable to the employee making continuedemployment untenable.
This applies where the employee isguilty of sufficiently grave misconduct making it impossibleto continue the relationship. Court cases have also found itin the following situations:continuous and persistent unsatisfactory performance;criminal or deliberate tortious acts against the em-ployer;serious criminal acts that are not in the line of duty;improper relationships with other employees; andmaterial misrepresentation in the hiring process.Unfitness for work can sometimes be considered to be afault attributable to the employer. This can include diseaseor illness occurring outside the line of duty and completelack of aptitude (although the court is generous to theemployees in its assessment). Although debilitating illnessor injury may in some cases be just cause to dismiss an em-ployee from the payroll, employees taking statutory mater-nity leave and childcare leave are protected (
see Question15, Protected employees
).
Urgent managerial necessity to try and save a failing busi-ness from imminent bankruptcy.
The scope of urgent mana-gerial necessity is also largely undefined (
see Question 17 |
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17484972/South-Korean-Employment-Law-Overview
And here is a copy of the actual labor laws. As noted above Article 23 also states that dismissal shall be for "justifiable reasons"
http://www.scribd.com/doc/12960127/Korean-Labor-Standards-Act-amended-in-2007
EDIT: And here is yet another site which says the same thing.
http://www.koreanlaborlaw.com/basic-legal-requirements-for-dismissal-in-korea/
| Quote: |
1. An employer should have a justifiable reason to dismiss a worker.
Dismissal without a justifiable reason is invalid in Korea. |
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:38 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| plchron wrote: |
| That didn't stop my PS from 'asking' me to come in one saturday for parent/ evaluation day. I told them no... |
Which kinda backs up my point yes?
They can ask...and you can say no since you have no obligation to work Saturdays. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| tanklor1 wrote: |
Ppppffffttttt....
I teach Saturdays. I don't know what ya'll be complaining about. |
And you get paid overtime for those Saturdays? I mean, you are talking about working a six-day workweek here, right? I really don't see a hagweon owner paying 50 days or more of overtime.
Ppppffffttttt...., indeed.  |
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chrisblank
Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| big_fella1 wrote: |
Any employer demanding you work Saturdays is just demanding that you report them to the Labor Board, National Tax Service, National Health Insurance Commission and the National Pension Office.
Any hagwon trying this work on Saturdays nonsense isn't going to be in business much longer.
Game on, lets see them destroy their own industry. |
Are there clouds in your world?
Every student I talk to already has classes on Saturday at a hogwon. Ask any grade 6 elementary - 3rd year high school student.
The only big change will be the younger kids who will need something to do Saturday mornings, hence more hogwon class, and therefore more NET teachers needed. Any school that decides to forgo Saturday classes is going to loose business. |
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ssuprnova
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Location: Saigon
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| tanklor1 wrote: |
Ppppffffttttt....
I teach Saturdays. I don't know what ya'll be complaining about. |
It's people with attitudes similar to yours that will make the Mon-Sat workweek the new standard. Next thing you know you'll be sharing an apartment or asked to move to a goshiwon just so the boss can save a few hundred thousand won a month.
Disclaimer: I also work Saturdays, and I don't really mind it. However, I did negotiate a triple overtime rate before agreeing to it. |
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Skippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| ssuprnova wrote: |
| tanklor1 wrote: |
Ppppffffttttt....
I teach Saturdays. I don't know what ya'll be complaining about. |
It's people with attitudes similar to yours that will make the Mon-Sat workweek the new standard. Next thing you know you'll be sharing an apartment or asked to move to a goshiwon just so the boss can save a few hundred thousand won a month.
Disclaimer: I also work Saturdays, and I don't really mind it. However, I did negotiate a triple overtime rate before agreeing to it. |
Good on ya! You negotiated.
I will agree if a hagwon owner can get an inch they will take a mile. This my become more common, if the ESL market continues on it's slightly crowded way. I do not see Goshiwon I see back to sharing apartments. |
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tanklor1
Joined: 13 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Skippy wrote: |
| ssuprnova wrote: |
| tanklor1 wrote: |
Ppppffffttttt....
I teach Saturdays. I don't know what ya'll be complaining about. |
It's people with attitudes similar to yours that will make the Mon-Sat workweek the new standard. Next thing you know you'll be sharing an apartment or asked to move to a goshiwon just so the boss can save a few hundred thousand won a month.
Disclaimer: I also work Saturdays, and I don't really mind it. However, I did negotiate a triple overtime rate before agreeing to it. |
Good on ya! You negotiated.
I will agree if a hagwon owner can get an inch they will take a mile. This my become more common, if the ESL market continues on it's slightly crowded way. I do not see Goshiwon I see back to sharing apartments. |
Ohh trust me, I hate working on Saturdays with an unbridled fury that cannot be extinguished by a 1000 suns but this was the contract that I initially signed on for and I can't openly complain about something that I knew about from the start. |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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no whats going to happen is new jobs being posted are going to include Saturdays as part of their contracts, you can always say no but dont expect to get as many job offers. given the crap us economy they will have no problems filling positions
Saturday institute classes are common in Japan, HK and Thailand so better get used to it |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ssuprnova wrote: |
| tanklor1 wrote: |
Ppppffffttttt....
I teach Saturdays. I don't know what ya'll be complaining about. |
It's people with attitudes similar to yours that will make the Mon-Sat workweek the new standard. . |
Actually that was the old standard back in the 90's and early 2000's. |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Actually that was the old standard back in the 90's and early 2000's. |
As Korea had an official 6 day workweek then, that makes sense. Now though? They'll have a hard time of it, I think. |
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