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tideout
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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 Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| tideout wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
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This isn't directed at anyone but there seems to be an inevitable & quick devolution of certain threads especially when there's criticism of something going on in SK.
Even the slightest turn in a sentence or wording turns into a sideshow that ironically, is more and more off topic. This is even when the general intent of the writer can probably be determined and in any case, could better be determined if there were any interest in asking a sincere question. |
Right, but to lay out where apologists are coming from...
People here are so quick to pile on Korea and point it out as an exception. But if you look at what goes on in the world, in fact it is the norm. Why don't people look for that before they post a blast?
Second, we notice that when negative stories involving "back home" crop up those are treated as being the work of individuals, where as anything that happens involving a Korean is a reflection on their culture.
Last, there is a lack of perspective. People feel that there is all this negativity, but where are the posts on the positive events? Where are the posts on the 90-95% of Koreans who don't stare or sneer or treat foreigners like crap? Why are the 5-10% who do treated as the example. Think about it. You probably have 5-10 customer service interactions a day. How many of them treat you poorly because you are foreign? How many businesses turn you away? Yet the 5-10% that do are treated as the rule. What this suggests is irrational thinking. If the 5-10% dominate you thoughts and overwhelm the other 90%, it is not Korea that is irrational and crazy- get this, sorry, IT IS YOU. Yes, you failed. You failed to maintain emotional control and soberly analyze things. You allowed your emotions and thoughts to portray the10% as representative and to dismiss the 90%. That is not Korea's fault. IT IS YOURS.
Now, that being said, there are plenty of posters on Dave's who have brought up valid points about the frustrations of living in this country and its faults without losing focus. I can name several. Centrist posters. They know how to criticize without being bigoted and irrational.
In this case I agree, this display is disgusting and needs an uproar to make it clear that it should not be tolerated. Just as an uproar is needed when US broadcast comedians say bigoted things themselves. This is uncalled for and should blackface should be stopped. Get it out and make sure it never shows up again. |
Nothing personal. Not directed really at you. We're all sincere here and your argument rings true for you. I'm not being sarcastic, even a little bit.
White noise.
Someone else should be along shortly to help you turn up the volume. |
See, it didn't take long. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| jfromtheway wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| jfromtheway wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| jfromtheway wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| jfromtheway wrote: |
| I showed this to my ladyfriend earlier and she said it was from a cartoon called �Ѹ� with a character named "Michael," after Michael Jackson. But she couldn't confirm the Michael Jackson part. She didn't think it qualified as "racist," so we differed on that matter. Racial issues are relative to a degree. And most western cultures are more attuned to racial issues than most Asian cultures are. But it's hard to view this garbage as anything other than unacceptable. |
Yeah it's about as unacceptable as this is.
| jfromtheway wrote: |
| Asians just don't get it do they... |
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Masterful out of context crap slinging! |
Nope just pointing out the hypocritical nonsense here.
It's fine for you to paint all Asian people with the same brush but when the shoe is on the other foot...suddenly it's racist.
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If you're going to make an argument for that not being racist, or me being racist, then MAKE an argument. Don't pussyfoot around in your own nonsense and extract other peoples' posts to make some extremely vague non-point. Only the untouchables are allowed to bait people constantly while never making arguments themselves. Pathetic. |
I've made an argument. If you can't understand it then ask.
Here it is again. First you make a racist blanket statement by stating "Asians just don't get it do they." Then you complain about them being racist. Rather breathtaking hypocrisy here.
And when I call you out you feign ignorance of what you said was so offensive. |
Nevermind... you're just trying to fire me up hoping that I expose the discriminatory feelings towards "Asians" that I don't even have, with the intention of getting me banned from this site. So low, but seen it too many times. I don't think any race or ethnic group is this way or that way, I didn't imply that, I'm not an idiot. Just like the skit, you're entitled to feel varying degrees of the following:
Person A thinks the skit [or jfromtheway's comment] was not funny and racist.
Person B thinks the skit [or jfromtheway's comment] was not funny but also not racist.
Person C thinks the skit [or jfromtheway's comment] was funny but not racist.
Person D thinks the skit [or jfromtheway's comment] was funny and racist.
And the reason I said "Asians" instead of "Koreans" is because I thought someone would say, "but jfromtheway, negative attitudes towards blacks are much greater in China." Go figure. Again, I don't think every single Asian/Korean person is one way, I'm not a sociopath. Self-censorship, bleh. |
I have no intention of getting you banned...I don't know you from Adam so I don't care one way or the other. Just pointing out that your post is just as in poor taste as that "blackface" performance.
But being as you can't see that...then yes, nevermind. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| tideout wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
This isn't directed at anyone but there seems to be an inevitable & quick devolution of certain threads especially when there's criticism of something going on in SK.
Even the slightest turn in a sentence or wording turns into a sideshow that ironically, is more and more off topic. This is even when the general intent of the writer can probably be determined and in any case, could better be determined if there were any interest in asking a sincere question. |
Right, but to lay out where apologists are coming from...
People here are so quick to pile on Korea and point it out as an exception. But if you look at what goes on in the world, in fact it is the norm. Why don't people look for that before they post a blast?
Second, we notice that when negative stories involving "back home" crop up those are treated as being the work of individuals, where as anything that happens involving a Korean is a reflection on their culture.
Last, there is a lack of perspective. People feel that there is all this negativity, but where are the posts on the positive events? Where are the posts on the 90-95% of Koreans who don't stare or sneer or treat foreigners like crap? Why are the 5-10% who do treated as the example. Think about it. You probably have 5-10 customer service interactions a day. How many of them treat you poorly because you are foreign? How many businesses turn you away? Yet the 5-10% that do are treated as the rule. What this suggests is irrational thinking. If the 5-10% dominate you thoughts and overwhelm the other 90%, it is not Korea that is irrational and crazy- get this, sorry, IT IS YOU. Yes, you failed. You failed to maintain emotional control and soberly analyze things. You allowed your emotions and thoughts to portray the10% as representative and to dismiss the 90%. That is not Korea's fault. IT IS YOURS.
Now, that being said, there are plenty of posters on Dave's who have brought up valid points about the frustrations of living in this country and its faults without losing focus. I can name several. Centrist posters. They know how to criticize without being bigoted and irrational.
In this case I agree, this display is disgusting and needs an uproar to make it clear that it should not be tolerated. Just as an uproar is needed when US broadcast comedians say bigoted things themselves. This is uncalled for and should blackface should be stopped. Get it out and make sure it never shows up again. |
Nothing personal. Not directed really at you. We're all sincere here and your argument rings true for you. I'm not being sarcastic, even a little bit.
White noise.
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"White noise"=In other words I can't counter the argument so I'll just dismiss it with a snide remark and hope that other people don't notice it.
Mr. Steelrails clearly laid out what goes on on these forums and it wasn't even denied. And when you say "I'm not being sarcastic," yet refuse to address that argument with anything but, it does more damage to your agenda then help. |
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tideout
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| And the beat goes on. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Beat-down is more like it.
But hey if that's what you enjoy...more power to you. |
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Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Im still trying to figure out why you guys think its ok for a whole movie (White Chicks) to be done in white face and all of it's blatant racism and sweep all other black racists comedians under the rug.
Do you hate yourself?
Why is it ok for blacks to do racists comedy but not other races directed towards them.
You guys, through the liberal agenda, have lost all sense of being. Pathetic. |
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Allthechildrenareinsane
Joined: 23 Jun 2011
Location: Lost in a Roman wilderness of pain
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Dodge7 wrote: |
Where were all of you white, self-hating liberals when the Wayan bros. made a WHOLE MOVIE about the negative stereotypes of white woman in "White Chicks?" And the countless comedians that get nasty with their overt racism towards white people. Blacks literally make a living on disrespecting white and every other racial group. I think black face is totally fine.
What's good for the goose... |
Wow. You're trolling, obviously, but let me just point out for the sake of it that race (as distinct from, say, ethnicity or socio-cultural or national identity) is entirely about the distribution of various kinds of power in a society.
If one is, say, a white American, then one is a member of a group that is considered socially normative and is more politically and economically empowered than other racial groups.
That's the whole point of "whiteness" -- to consolidate and preserve social, economic and political power in the hands of those considered "white," and to disempower and exclude those considered non-white. There is no biologically sound basis for race. Race is all about power, pure and simple -- who has it and who doesn't.
My racial identity as a white person is something that's distinct from whatever particular cultural, national or regional identities I may consciously hold dear, so I don't feel offended in the least when someone makes fun of "white people." As a white person and therefore a beneficiary of white privilege, I have no problem with the Wayans Brothers or anyone else satirizing, parodying or critiquing "whiteness," since what they're doing is essentially speaking truth to power. |
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Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| Allthechildrenareinsane wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
Where were all of you white, self-hating liberals when the Wayan bros. made a WHOLE MOVIE about the negative stereotypes of white woman in "White Chicks?" And the countless comedians that get nasty with their overt racism towards white people. Blacks literally make a living on disrespecting white and every other racial group. I think black face is totally fine.
What's good for the goose... |
Wow. You're trolling, obviously, but let me just point out for the sake of it that race (as distinct from, say, ethnicity or socio-cultural or national identity) is entirely about the distribution of various kinds of power in a society.
If one is, say, a white American, then one is a member of a group that is considered socially normative and is more politically and economically empowered than other racial groups.
That's the whole point of "whiteness" -- to consolidate and preserve social, economic and political power in the hands of those considered "white," and to disempower and exclude those considered non-white. There is no biologically sound basis for race. Race is all about power, pure and simple -- who has it and who doesn't.
My racial identity as a white person is something that's distinct from whatever particular cultural, national or regional identities I may consciously hold dear, so I don't feel offended in the least when someone makes fun of "white people." As a white person and therefore a beneficiary of white privilege, I have no problem with the Wayans Brothers or anyone else satirizing, parodying or critiquing "whiteness," since what they're doing is essentially speaking truth to power. |
Wow you've been thoroughly indoctrinated by the liberal, white guilt agenda. Not me.
So what you're saying is that if you are the majority then no one can be racist to you? So I can go out in "Korean face" and yell "ching chong chu!" because I am the minority here? Are you starting to see my point? You're off your rocker!
There will always be a racial divide if one party gets to make be racist against another race. It just doesn't go like that. Not everyone in the white camp is happy with your "rules." Sorry. If we are truly ever going to be equal then EVERYONE has to play by the same rules.
You're insane. |
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jaj
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:02 am Post subject: |
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Look, if anybody here can support the argument that racist beliefs don't lead to discrimination, then there's nothing to be worried about.
Racial hostility and general disdain towards blacks here, however, does lead to black English teachers and recent college grads posting over and over on this site and others, "Do you think they'll hire me? What are the odds of me getting hired in Korea ?"
This is horrific.
South Korea should be held accountable for creating a hostile work environment for non-white English teachers and non white visitors to the country. This is a small country. I don't dare speak about black friends or use the word black here. I know better. It only leads to laughter and talk about evil and darkness. Let's stop playing games. Unless you too have an agenda to recreate segregation and push race relations back 100 years, this should bother you too.
And no, this country is not a vacuum. It's a part of the developed world and the larger global community.
Shameless. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Offensive or not, comedy based on racial/national stereotypes is about as funny as a man in a wig falling over to a soundtrack of canned laughter and 'amusing' sound effects. Korean 'comedy' seems to be forever stuck in the 1980s.
If you are going to dish out this sort of treatment, you need to be able to take it yourself. You try taking the piss out of Koreans to their face and see how funny they think that is. |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| The Floating World wrote: |
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| For one thing I don't think a typical member of the British public has much of a clue about Korea beyond Kim Jong Il, the Korean War, MASH, and Park Ji Sung. |
Indeed. After 8 yrs my friends back home still think I live on a tropical beach with palm trees and people in white conical hats farming in the background... |
A recent conversation with a friend of my older brother, currently residing in the UK, warned me to "watch out for those Thai ladyboys. They're all the rage over there, aren't they?" I explained that, although Korea does have a thriving Transgender scene in particular pockets of Seoul, "those Thai ladyboys" are a 6 hour flight away. I've also had to tell people back in Blighty that Koreans are highly unlikely to say, "Me love you long time." |
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UknowsI
Joined: 16 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:40 am Post subject: |
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I still find it a bit difficult to define exactly what makes a joke racist or not. Is Bobby Lee racist? He is an American comedian who often portrait Koreans in silly ways. For those of you who are not familiar with him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_mF1c91RGQ&feature=related
He probably have some sketches which are more "racist", but I found that one to be his best. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Offensive or not, comedy based on racial/national stereotypes is about as funny as a man in a wig falling over to a soundtrack of canned laughter and 'amusing' sound effects. Korean 'comedy' seems to be forever stuck in the 1980s.
If you are going to dish out this sort of treatment, you need to be able to take it yourself. You try taking the piss out of Koreans to their face and see how funny they think that is. |
It's very difficult to generalise in this way about what's funny in comedy and what's not. One guy in a wig falling over to 'amusing' sound effects can be funny and another might not be. Be they Korean, Western or whatever. Similarly some comedy based on national stereotypes can be very well observed and amusing nowadays and some seems old fashioned and racist. If you look back at the history of comedy and the way things go out of favour and come back into fashion you can see that every time people have assumed a topic or style of comedy has become unacceptable, someone re-writes the rules and makes it ok and funny again.
That's not to say that the Korean sketch with the black guys is funny/not funny, racist or not racist, I wouldn't know until I'd seen the translation and even then I'm not Korean so it would be difficult to judge. I'm only saying you can't just say blacking up and pretending to be Africans is bad per se.
Last edited by edwardcatflap on Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Anyone remember the Busan incident a few years back? English teachers put on a play ridiculing aspects of Korean culture. A Korean complained to the police. The participants were arrested, charged with 'violating their visas' and deported - each and every one of them. 
Yet their tv shows regularly produce this disgusting racist 'Aprika' material set to canned laughter and applause.
Korea sickens me sometimes. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:49 am Post subject: |
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Anyone remember the Busan incident a few years back? English teachers put on a play ridiculing aspects of Korean culture. A Korean complained to the police. The participants were arrested, charged with 'violating their visas' and deported - each and every one of them.
Yet their tv shows regularly produce this disgusting racist 'Aprika' material set to canned laughter and applause.
Korea sickens me sometimes |
Yeah I do remember that but as you said it was because they were violating their visas by doing another job, not because of the actual content of the play |
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