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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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 Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Jinxsy, no one is refuting that there are two ends of every spectrum. Anyone with an ounce of logic would immediately understand that it's human nature (especially on web forums!) when people always try to make light of the most disturbing aspects of any subject.
Isn't this a tired old subject though? The excellent teachers and profs know who they are, and they do extremely well for themselves. The bad ones will always have something to bitch about, and while most of them will be perpetually in some labor dispute, for others - when one door closes another one opens, lol  |
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myenglishisno
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Geumchon
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: Are Unwell Teachers More Successful? |
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| jinks wrote: |
| myenglishisno wrote: |
| That's why spineless nutjobs can stay forever and genuinely good teachers end up running home. |
I'm far from a spineless nut job. In fact, I am a good teacher. That is why I only worked at good jobs for the 7 years I was in Korea. Because I have the skills and qualifications required to teach EFL, I could avoid the crap schools, and get hired by the schools that paid well and offered good salaries and GREAT vacations. If your working conditions are so bad, don't look around for other foreign teachers to blame (no matter how much of a nutjob they may be), but look at yourself - if you are such a 'genuinely good teacher' how come no one is hiring you to work at the good jobs? |
Do your morning dumps smell like roses or what?
I don't take bad jobs. Actually, in the past two jobs, I went through hundreds of ads and applied to the jobs with the best contracts. In the job I complained about, the contract was rock solid. I received more than 2.6, worked half-decent hours (I negotiated a six day work week down to five days) and lived in a huge officetel. It was just the curriculum and ridiculous demands that I couldn't deal with.
My current job is great in terms of the contract. There were no loopholes or anything of the sort. The only problem is that my boss is very much of an adjosshi in the bad sense of the word.
Anyway, your teaching ability might matter at your job but I've been (on and off) almost as long as you and I can testify that in many cases, your relationships, appearance and punctuality are FAR more important than your teaching ability in a typical hagwon.
The hagwon I complained about wanted mindless entertainers, not teachers. Most hagwons are happy if the parents are happy and unfortunately, the parents care more about how things look at a brief glance and how much homework the kids are bringing home than anything else. If the kids are doing a lot of busy work with a 22-year-old blonde bimbo, it looks a lot better on the surface (to Korean mothers) than the kids are learning a lot from a well educated 30-something with loads of experience.
Take into account that If they wanted actual teachers, me and several others would still be there and the current staff would have been fired. It was painfully obvious what they were going for in terms of employees - they weren't even really hiding it anymore either. Even my recruiter (who quit recently) told us that they were only hiring white, American teachers under age 25 now because business is so good that they can afford to be picky.
Hagwons... |
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jinks
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Location: Formerly: Lower North Island
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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I'm glad your last two jobs have been good for you. Try and forget about past injustices and stop reliving the pain of previous bad employers. Easier said than done, I know, but we all feel better when we focus on the positive.
ETA: Since you ask - just because I'm qualified to do my job, I enjoy it and I think I do it well, it doesn't mean that I think my shit don't stink. It means i've done the hard yards, got the relevant degrees, got the right jobs and kept up with my own professional development. What does grip my shit, though, is the assumption that anyone who enjoys working in Korea is either:
a failure at home
a dreamer
an apologist at any cost
a liar
and now - 'unwell' |
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myenglishisno
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Geumchon
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| jinks wrote: |
What does grip my shit, though, is the assumption that anyone who enjoys working in Korea is either:
a failure at home
a failure at home
a dreamer
an apologist at any cost
a liar
and now - 'unwell' |
I hate this too. The government has this attitude, which means hagwons are rarely held accountable for their actions.
I like living in Korea and want to stay. I want to get higher qualifications and teach somewhere better, like you (the only reason I haven't been able to is money). It doesn't make me feel any better when I come on to the forums here and see everyone calling each other losers just for setting foot in this country to teach.
I don't even know many people back home who aren't in customer service or retail so it's not like all of our friends are getting 60k a year and we're rotting away on this side. As far as I know, people in Korea are actually doing better than their counterparts in the West. |
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always learning
Joined: 10 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| myenglishisno wrote: |
| As far as I know, people in Korea are actually doing better than their counterparts in the West. |
Korean Social Statistics vs. "better than their counterparts in the west"
Korea officially has the highest suicide rate among all member countries of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.
It's gotten so bad that the Ministry of Health and Welfare has announced that Regular mental health checkups will likely be conducted on all Koreans as early as next year.
Koreans put in the most working hours among the OECD countries. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:39 am Post subject: Re: Are Unwell Teachers More Successful? |
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| myenglishisno wrote: |
| If they wanted actual teachers, me and several others would still be there and the current staff would have been fired. It was painfully obvious what they were going for in terms of employees - they weren't even really hiding it anymore either. Even my recruiter (who quit recently) told us that they were only hiring white, American teachers under age 25 now |
If you're a male teacher in Korea now you have to fight tooth and nail just to get the same pay and conditions as an american female. Once you're on the job you then face all kinds of bias and preconceptions that work against you.
Most Koreans I have spoken to about it are fairly ashamed because they well understand that this is how it goes in this country.
Childish and ridiculous misperceptions based on appearance grip this country from top to bottom. They know its silly but they just can't seem to drag themselves away from it.
It applies to koreans too, they are also frustrated with the system. They get rejected from jobs for not "looking the part" and having the right image at interview. |
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myenglishisno
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Geumchon
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| always learning wrote: |
| myenglishisno wrote: |
| As far as I know, people in Korea are actually doing better than their counterparts in the West. |
Korean Social Statistics vs. "better than their counterparts in the west"
Korea officially has the highest suicide rate among all member countries of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.
It's gotten so bad that the Ministry of Health and Welfare has announced that Regular mental health checkups will likely be conducted on all Koreans as early as next year.
Koreans put in the most working hours among the OECD countries. |
I'm speaking about foreigners living and working in Korea vs. foreigners living and working back home. I should have clarified.
| Julius wrote: |
| myenglishisno wrote: |
| If they wanted actual teachers, me and several others would still be there and the current staff would have been fired. It was painfully obvious what they were going for in terms of employees - they weren't even really hiding it anymore either. Even my recruiter (who quit recently) told us that they were only hiring white, American teachers under age 25 now |
If you're a male teacher in Korea now you have to fight tooth and nail just to get the same pay and conditions as an american female. Once you're on the job you then face all kinds of bias and preconceptions that work against you.
Most Koreans I have spoken to about it are fairly ashamed because they well understand that this is how it goes in this country.
Childish and ridiculous misperceptions based on appearance grip this country from top to bottom. They know its silly but they just can't seem to drag themselves away from it.
It applies to koreans too, they are also frustrated with the system. They get rejected from jobs for not "looking the part" and having the right image at interview. |
I agree with you there. Appearance wins out hand over fist. I've even seen it in action several years ago when I was the only foreigner on a committee reviewing the interviews of Korean public school English teaching candidates.
I chose the candidate who was approaching 40 who had lived in the US for a decade, had a long list of credentials and spoke impeccable English (she didn't need to memorize her response verbatim like the younger teachers and sounded remarkably more honest). I noticed that I voted her the highest while the other people voted her the lowest. When I asked them why, they said that her talent and age would make other teachers uncomfortable. Given who they selected, I think the only factors they were going on were young and bubbly.
The scary thing is that is public school. A government job. I don't even want to know what the private sector is like!
When I bring up this topic with my students, they're always on my side but even most of them have reluctantly had plastic surgery once, twice or multiple times. I don't get it. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Public school teachers are class room assistants, not considered important, or often desirable teaching-wise, and are generally chosen according to what the Principal and the Korean teacher who will be in charge of them wants. Generally they prefer young, maleable people who will eat in the canteen, learn Korean quickly and express wonderment at every new and exciting aspect of Korean culture. Hagwan teachers are chosen according to whatever racial, sexual or age prejudice the owner believes the parents have. Very few teachers are chosen according to the needs of the students. |
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