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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes...but as I showed above they state that they will be "continuously monitoring" and will be implementing a continuous crackdown...so I'd say that counts as "now". But fair enough. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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See, to me, I see a crackdown as increased enforcement in a certain area over a specific time period....often with a low or zero tollerance for rule breaking.
So, when it comes to teaching on a tourist visa...have they been doing this? What are they doing differently in 2012 vs 2002 regarding catching teachers teaching illegally on tourist visas? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
See, to me, I see a crackdown as increased enforcement in a certain area over a specific time period....often with a low or zero tollerance for rule breaking.
So, when it comes to teaching on a tourist visa...have they been doing this? What are they doing differently in 2012 vs 2002 regarding catching teachers teaching illegally on tourist visas? |
1.
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| English teachers, who disturb social order during their staying in Korea such as illegal teaching, taking drugs and sex crimes, will be banned from entering South Korea. Also illegal employers will be receive heavier punishment. In the meantime, related authorities will share information about English teachers who breach their orders, and originally block their entering South Korea by inspecting them from the visa application stage |
2.
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| the South Korea Government will continuously and systematically implement joint crackdown on illegal English teaching, and will take action to deport offenders and block the entry of them simultaneously |
3.
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| It is expected the uneasiness of citizens incurred from ineligible English teachers will be mitigated by blocking illegal activities of disqualified English teachers who entered South Korea with tourist visas, visas obtained through forgery, and prohibiting entry of former convict and the person taking drugs thanks to this measure on the native English teachers by the Ministry of Justice. |
1 seems to state that if they catch them they will ban them and put them on some kind of blacklist (at least that's what I understand from "sharing information").
2 states they will be deported and banned from coming back.
3 mentions tourist visas explicitly and says they will be blocked.
1 and 2 were not implemented (and 3 was not enforced all that much) in 2002. The phrase "A pulse and a degree is all you need" was coined at about this time.
So basically they will be sharing information, establishing a blacklist and blocking anybody on the list. Also anyone who is here and caught will be deported and banned. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:20 am Post subject: |
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I think 3 is most important....but what are they doing about it? I know a number of teachers that have been doing this sort of thing for the ten years I've been here...
So what are they DOING to crackdown on teachers teaching on tourist visas? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
See, to me, I see a crackdown as increased enforcement in a certain area over a specific time period....often with a low or zero tollerance for rule breaking.
So, when it comes to teaching on a tourist visa...have they been doing this? What are they doing differently in 2012 vs 2002 regarding catching teachers teaching illegally on tourist visas? |
[quote="TheUrbanMyth"]
1.
| Quote: |
| English teachers, who disturb social order during their staying in Korea such as illegal teaching, taking drugs and sex crimes, will be banned from entering South Korea. Also illegal employers will be receive heavier punishment. In the meantime, related authorities will share information about English teachers who breach their orders, and originally block their entering South Korea by inspecting them from the visa application stage |
2.
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| the South Korea Government will continuously and systematically implement joint crackdown on illegal English teaching, and will take action to deport offenders and block the entry of them simultaneously |
Like I said these rules were either not implemented or enforced until the end of 2007.
And Immigration has stated in the past that they don't have enough manpower to monitor all the teachers...so yes I've no doubt there are more than a few teachers teaching illegally on tourist visas.
But if you look above I listed from the link above as to what they plan to do with illegal teachers (which would include teachers on tourist visas).
Deportation, banning and rejection of future applications/attempts to enter seem to be what they have in mind.
If you are looking for more specifics you'll have to ask the government...I'm not privy to Immigration decisions made by the higher-ups. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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That's punishment for those that are caught. What are they doing to catch them?
Is a crackdown not about catching lawbreakers? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
That's punishment for those that are caught. What are they doing to catch them?
Is a crackdown not about catching lawbreakers? |
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| ○ "In order to prevent submission of forged documents such as certificates of diploma at the time of applying for certificate of visa issuance, the Seoul Immigration Office will organize and operate document a identification team to originally block the issuance of visas using forged documents" |
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○ "Since native speakers who received certificates of issuance of visas at immigration services received E-2 from consulates in China and Japan until now, it has been difficult to verify whether they really have the diploma specified in the document."
"However, from now on, the applicants should apply for the visa at Korean consulates located in their home countries. Since the first time applicant shall have to apply for an interview with consul, the investigation for the issuance of visa will be more strict." |
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| ○ "In order to prevent native English teachers who disrupt social order with taking drugs, committing sexual harassment and alcohol intoxication, the black list of problematic English teachers shall be shared between related institutions such as the Ministry of Justice, Ministry of Education and Human Resources Development, and Korea Academy Association to intensively monitor the information of such English teachers and originally block the entry." |
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| "The Ministry of Justice will continuously monitor the effects of these measures. If such illegal activities of English teachers are not eradicated, it will consider out stronger punishment measures." |
http://mikemcstay.blogspot.com/2007/11/e2-notice-from-immigration-title-no.html
I'd say they are doing all they can do with regards to their limited manpower and with in the limits of a democracy (yes the ROK is a republic but it's still based on a number of democratic principles).
What do you think they should be doing? Have someone shadow every single foreigner that enters the country? Given the sheer number of foreigners and their budget...I'd say that's not feasible.
Given the manpower and monetary constraints what do you think they should be doing?
Anyway we have gone REALLY off-topic...should either take this to PM or create a new thread. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think this is off topic at all. The topic is about teaching on a tourist visa, and that's what I am discussing.
The links/quotes you've mentioned seem to be directed at E2 regs... Not tourist visas.
To combat ppl teaching on tourist visas, they'd have to start asking questions in Incheon. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
I don't think this is off topic at all. The topic is about teaching on a tourist visa, and that's what I am discussing.
The links/quotes you've mentioned seem to be directed at E2 regs... Not tourist visas.
To combat ppl teaching on tourist visas, they'd have to start asking questions in Incheon. |
Given that the link mentioned tourist visas specifically as one of the ways illegal teachers work here I don't see that.
And as I mentioned in the other link they've caught teachers on tourist visas before. Every so often Immigration does a sweep and nabs a number of teachers..there are still several threads here over the years about this.
How do they catch these people? They need proof. Asking questions in Incheon wouldn't do a thing. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
I don't think this is off topic at all. The topic is about teaching on a tourist visa, and that's what I am discussing.
The links/quotes you've mentioned seem to be directed at E2 regs... Not tourist visas.
To combat ppl teaching on tourist visas, they'd have to start asking questions in Incheon. |
Given that the link mentioned tourist visas specifically as one of the ways illegal teachers work here I don't see that.
And as I mentioned in the other link they've caught teachers on tourist visas before. Every so often Immigration does a sweep and nabs a number of teachers..there are still several threads here over the years about this.
How do they catch these people? They need proof. Asking questions in Incheon wouldn't do a thing. |
1. Perhaps my eyes are deceiving me, but I see no mention of a tourist visa in the quotes you posted above.
2. When someone is arriving in Incheon on their 16th consecutive tourist visa, I think that is the EXACT time an immigration officer should be asking questions. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
I don't think this is off topic at all. The topic is about teaching on a tourist visa, and that's what I am discussing.
The links/quotes you've mentioned seem to be directed at E2 regs... Not tourist visas.
To combat ppl teaching on tourist visas, they'd have to start asking questions in Incheon. |
Given that the link mentioned tourist visas specifically as one of the ways illegal teachers work here I don't see that.
And as I mentioned in the other link they've caught teachers on tourist visas before. Every so often Immigration does a sweep and nabs a number of teachers..there are still several threads here over the years about this.
How do they catch these people? They need proof. Asking questions in Incheon wouldn't do a thing. |
1. Perhaps my eyes are deceiving me, but I see no mention of a tourist visa in the quotes you posted above.
2. When someone is arriving in Incheon on their 16th consecutive tourist visa, I think that is the EXACT time an immigration officer should be asking questions. |
1. I quoted the part where it mentions "tourist visa" a few posts back. I also said it was mentioned in the LINK...why not read it?
2. OK.
Immi Officer : "why are you here?"
16 tourist visa guy: "I'm touring Korea."
IO: "But you've been here many times before."
16: "I love Korea. I'm getting material to write a book to promote Korea as a tourist destination."
No law against that. Unless you think Immigration officers should be allowed to deny anyone they please based on a hunch.
Wouldn't it be better to notice where he lives and when you need to fulfill an arrest quota or whatever...stake it out and wait for him to go to work?
That way you've got proof and it's all nice and legal-like. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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1. Sorry to burst your bubble, man, but I don't read every link posted. If you quote from it, I presume you're quoting for a reason and that it pertains to this discussion. This discussion is about teaching on a tourist visa...and I really wish you'd stop quoting things related to E2 visas.
2. Sure. They could question them, flag their name. Possibly run a search for bank accounts...and so on. But without ever noticing them coming in on those repeat visas, you're simply hoping to sweep them up in some sort of random sting.
That doesn't make a lot of sense.
Keep in mind that a tourist visa is not a residence visa. And that they refused for various reasons by many an Immi official around the world. And yes, if they have "just a hunch", that's enough for a follow up in my book. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| 1. Sorry to burst your bubble, man, but I don't read every link posted. If you quote from it, I presume you're quoting for a reason and that it pertains to this discussion. This discussion is about teaching on a tourist visa...and I really wish you'd stop quoting things related to E2 visas. |
| Quote: |
| It is expected the uneasiness of citizens incurred from ineligible English teachers will be mitigated by blocking illegal activities of disqualified English teachers who entered South Korea with tourist visas |
Happy now? Seriously what is your point?
The punishments I listed above apply to all illegal teachers including those on tourist visas. Now you asked what they are doing differently in 2002 vs 2012 and I believe I have answered that. I'm not interested in getting into a huge multi-page discussion so just tell me what exactly you are driving at.
Teachers on tourist visas are not treated (in the link) as some different distinct group. They are lumped in together with ALL illegal teachers including those with faked documents on an E-2 visa or those who teach illegally on an E-2 You keep going on and on about them specifically but they are only mentioned as part of the overall group of illegal teachers. All the penalities and restrictions apply to them as well so I don't see the problem. |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
2. OK.
Immi Officer : "why are you here?"
16 tourist visa guy: "I'm touring Korea."
IO: "But you've been here many times before."
16: "I love Korea. I'm getting material to write a book to promote Korea as a tourist destination." |
Wouldn't that constitute as research and, therefore, require an actual non-tourist visa? |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Happy now? Seriously what is your point? |
My point? My point is that there is no visible crackdown on teachers on tourist visas.
| Quote: |
| It is expected the uneasiness of citizens incurred from ineligible English teachers will be mitigated by blocking illegal activities of disqualified English teachers who entered South Korea with tourist visas |
If you think that THIS constitutes a crackdown... we'll never agree on this issue. |
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