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Chimie
Joined: 05 Oct 2011
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 Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:52 pm Post subject: Insurance Delay? Any options? |
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The search function on these forums is refusing to load. I just keep getting a 404.
Anyways, I arrived in Korea December 1st. I was told there was a three month waiting period before you could be enrolled in the National Health Insurance. I waited out my time, went to the Insurance Office with my boss and we filled out the paperwork then I went home. A few days later when all my coworkers were getting their insurance cards, mine never came. I figured it would be coming soon... Still, nothing. Back in February, I actually had a medical problem and have had to go to the doctor quite a few times since then. It's cost me about 250,000W. I didn't save any receipts from February, but I still have all of the ones from March (about 130,000 worth).
Today, I asked my boss about the insurance and why I didn't receive it. I was told that because I went to Japan on Vacation from 3/1-3/4 it "reset" my three month waiting period. Even though I had already gone to the Government office and filled out the paperwork.
So now I have to wait until June 1st to receive my insurance card. Is this true? Is there anything I can do? Everyone else in my office has their insurance and they're not taking Medical out of my pay--and this isn't some tiny Hagwon, it's the largest Avalon Campus in Korea, so I really don't think they're pocketing the money... |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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he lied to you, and pocketed your money. there is no "3 month waiting period" to get health insurance (nhic which he is required to enroll you in). you get it usually within a few days of getting your arc, at most it takes a month. there is no "reset" if you go to Japan etc. the only thing that can happen is if you're out of the country more than a month you can get that months premium waived
i'd check at the pension office and nhic to see if he enrolled you. my money is on he didnt and pocketed the money. |
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Chimie
Joined: 05 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:27 am Post subject: |
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What money would "he" have pocketed? No money was withheld from my pay.
Furthermore, The people who told me this are not the owners or the principal, it's just the head teacher.. The owner of the school brings in a shitton of money every month from the several Hagwons he owns in the area. The insurance is what, 60$ a month? I really don't think that's the issue here. Every other person at my school has their NHIC pamphlet and is properly registered. There are ~25 foreign teachers at my school. None of them are being fucked over, I doubt the management here would do something illegal for just an extra ~60 a month...
Also, the owner takes out all of the employees for dinner at a high quality hotel buffet every other month (several hundred dollars per person) and takes us out to Outback once a month too. Why would he do this if he was trying to skim money off the top? It doesn't make sense. |
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Chimie
Joined: 05 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
For the person who entered Korea after Dec. 17, 2008, he/she becomes a self-employed insured person on the date when 3 months have passed from the entry date. After staying for a period of less than 3 months, he/she departed for a short period and then returned. In this case, may he/she acquire the eligibility of self-employment health insurance (isn�t there additional regulation on the elapsed time?)
- Entry: Dec. 18, 2008, Departure: Mar. 15, 2009, Entry: Mar. 17, 2009, Entry: Jun. 15, 2009....
For the person who entered Korea after Dec. 17, 2008, he/she acquires the qualification of self-employment health insurance on the date when 3 months have passed after the entry date. Regardless of the period of stay outside Korea, if he/she does not stay in Korea for a period of at least 3 months, he/she is not entitled to self-employment health insurance.
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I take this to mean I'm registered as self-employed? O.o;; (A contractor I would assume) |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| Chimie wrote: |
| Quote: |
For the person who entered Korea after Dec. 17, 2008, he/she becomes a self-employed insured person on the date when 3 months have passed from the entry date. After staying for a period of less than 3 months, he/she departed for a short period and then returned. In this case, may he/she acquire the eligibility of self-employment health insurance (isn�t there additional regulation on the elapsed time?)
- Entry: Dec. 18, 2008, Departure: Mar. 15, 2009, Entry: Mar. 17, 2009, Entry: Jun. 15, 2009....
For the person who entered Korea after Dec. 17, 2008, he/she acquires the qualification of self-employment health insurance on the date when 3 months have passed after the entry date. Regardless of the period of stay outside Korea, if he/she does not stay in Korea for a period of at least 3 months, he/she is not entitled to self-employment health insurance.
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I take this to mean I'm registered as self-employed? O.o;; (A contractor I would assume) |
It looks like you may have found your answer.
Check with other teachers to see if they are enrolled as Independent Contractors:
Are they enrolled in Pension and Health Insurance?
Do they pay 4.5% or 9% of salary for Pension?
Do they pay around 3% or nearly 6% for Health Insurance?
What is your (and their) income tax rate?
As an employee you can be enrolled in the National Health Insurance and Pension as soon as you have your ARC. You can have your medical exam and be enrolled within 2 weeks from your first day in Korea if you move quickly. You should be enrolled in both within 1 month. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| Chimie wrote: |
| Quote: |
For the person who entered Korea after Dec. 17, 2008, he/she becomes a self-employed insured person on the date when 3 months have passed from the entry date. After staying for a period of less than 3 months, he/she departed for a short period and then returned. In this case, may he/she acquire the eligibility of self-employment health insurance (isn�t there additional regulation on the elapsed time?)
- Entry: Dec. 18, 2008, Departure: Mar. 15, 2009, Entry: Mar. 17, 2009, Entry: Jun. 15, 2009....
For the person who entered Korea after Dec. 17, 2008, he/she acquires the qualification of self-employment health insurance on the date when 3 months have passed after the entry date. Regardless of the period of stay outside Korea, if he/she does not stay in Korea for a period of at least 3 months, he/she is not entitled to self-employment health insurance.
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I take this to mean I'm registered as self-employed? O.o;; (A contractor I would assume) |
What are you quoting? Is that from your contract or from a website?
In your contract do they use the term "employee"? If so then you should be have health insurance already. If the contract says something like "contractor" or "independent ____" then you can make a scandal about it at the labor board. You might win, you might not. This issue has come up already with a large shady hogwon chain, but to the best of my knowledge the courts still haven't resolved it yet. i.e. can a school sponsor a foreigner for an E2 visa and still have the teacher down as an independent contractor?
But it all comes down to whether or not you want to rock the boat. If you do, you better be ready to get fired and find a new job. Are they paying you more than normal hogwons pay? Enough to make up for the medical bills? If so, and you like the job, then just stick it out. If not, make a scene about it. |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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you cant be on an E2 and be "self employed" in order to get the visa the employer sponsoring has to employ you as a regular worker not as an independent contractor, a lot of companies are doing this to people as a way of getting out of paying pension etc.
well if he hasnt taken any money out of your pay it will come back and haunt you pension nhic etc will want the entire amount from the time you got here to the time you enroll and that could be a chunk of change
i definitely would be checking with pension, nhic and tax offices to make sure the proper amounts have been taken out or that he has you registered. |
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Chimie
Joined: 05 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Troglodyte wrote: |
| Chimie wrote: |
| Quote: |
For the person who entered Korea after Dec. 17, 2008, he/she becomes a self-employed insured person on the date when 3 months have passed from the entry date. After staying for a period of less than 3 months, he/she departed for a short period and then returned. In this case, may he/she acquire the eligibility of self-employment health insurance (isn�t there additional regulation on the elapsed time?)
- Entry: Dec. 18, 2008, Departure: Mar. 15, 2009, Entry: Mar. 17, 2009, Entry: Jun. 15, 2009....
For the person who entered Korea after Dec. 17, 2008, he/she acquires the qualification of self-employment health insurance on the date when 3 months have passed after the entry date. Regardless of the period of stay outside Korea, if he/she does not stay in Korea for a period of at least 3 months, he/she is not entitled to self-employment health insurance.
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I take this to mean I'm registered as self-employed? O.o;; (A contractor I would assume) |
What are you quoting? Is that from your contract or from a website?
In your contract do they use the term "employee"? If so then you should be have health insurance already. If the contract says something like "contractor" or "independent ____" then you can make a scandal about it at the labor board. You might win, you might not. This issue has come up already with a large shady hogwon chain, but to the best of my knowledge the courts still haven't resolved it yet. i.e. can a school sponsor a foreigner for an E2 visa and still have the teacher down as an independent contractor?
But it all comes down to whether or not you want to rock the boat. If you do, you better be ready to get fired and find a new job. Are they paying you more than normal hogwons pay? Enough to make up for the medical bills? If so, and you like the job, then just stick it out. If not, make a scene about it. |
The NHIC Website is where I quoted that from.
Anyways; This is from my contract:
(About Health Insurance)
| Quote: |
HEALTH PLAN
건강 보험
5.1 The Employer will pay 50% of the premium for the Employee�s health
plan, which is provided by the Employer and are administered through the
Employer. The Employee will be responsible for rest of the costs.
고용주는 피고용인의 건강 보험 가입 시 보험료의 반을 부담하며 그에 관한
것은 고용주가 관장한다. 그 외의 제반 비용은 피고용인이 부담한다. |
The plan they enroll us in is the National Health Care. Everyone here has their NHIC pamphlets, so I know they're enrolling people.
About Pension:
| Quote: |
Pension
pension tax for an average monthly salary is approximately 4.5%
pension is divided 50/50 between teacher and school
school does not deduct the teacher's monthly salary for pension tax, the school
save the teacher's pension tax and returns the pension to the teacher once the
teacher completes the contract. It's about half of payment.
This is not Korea's pension plan, it's the school's pension plan for the teacher.
연금은 급여의 약 4.5%이며, 고용주와 강사와 반반씩 부담한다.
하지만 고용주는 연금세금을 급여에서 제하지 않고 고용주가 강사의 연금
세금을 가지고 있다가 계약만료일에 강사에게 지급하며,
약 급여의 절반 정도이다. 이것은 국민연금제도가 아닌 고용주가 강사에 대한
연금제도이다. |
The pay is good, and it's good company to work for. The other employees are great and the work isn't bad. I do like the stability of the office, but if the pension fund is going to come back and bite me for this... I'm a little concerned. Most of the teachers that work here have worked here for 2 years, so if they're resigning, I'd think that they seem to like it here as well. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
you cant be on an E2 and be "self employed" in order to get the visa the employer sponsoring has to employ you as a regular worker not as an independent contractor,
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You are not correct. Do not give such bad information as advice.
It is perfectly legal and accepted for an E2 teacher to be an Independent Contractor in Korea.
Immigration routinely reads the contracts and approves the visas for E2 teachers that plainly state that the individual will be an Independent Contractor and not an employee.
It is legal and Immigration approves the visa.
Immigration forms make this clear: Change of workplace, Additional Workplace etc.
IC status is a function of the Tax Office. The Pension and Health Insurance administrators and Immigration Office have to accept the determination of employee or IC status as set by the Tax Office.
Unfortunately, the Tax Office will sometimes let employers declare their workers to be Independent Contractors without regard to the contract. The worker who feels he has been wrongly classified has to take action to get the status corrected and to enforce the contract.
Independent Contractor status along with self employment and family business workers comprise a large portion of the Korean workforce. These labor catagories are needed to keep people working and the economy moving.
| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
a lot of companies are doing this to people as a way of getting out of paying pension etc.
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This is not generally true. Employers prefer the IC status because it enables them to make their businesses appear smaller and keep large chunks of revenue off the books. This results in a large savings on their own tax liability, much greater than the peanuts they will save by not paying 1/2 or pension and HI. They will often pay more than the required pension amount in higher wages to obtain IC workers instead of employees.
In the OP's case, the contract states that the school will pay the teacher the school's 4.5% share of pension for the year in cash at the end of the contract. So, they are not saving this money and they are paying 1/2 of the Health Insurance as well. The school is trying to use ICs to lower their total tax exposure, not to cheat the teachers.
However, it is still generally better for most new E2 teachers to find a school that will hire them as an employee. Some E2s and many F visa holders along with millions of Koreans are better off working as Independent Contractors. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| Chimie wrote: |
| Troglodyte wrote: |
| Chimie wrote: |
| Quote: |
For the person who entered Korea after Dec. 17, 2008, he/she becomes a self-employed insured person on the date when 3 months have passed from the entry date. After staying for a period of less than 3 months, he/she departed for a short period and then returned. In this case, may he/she acquire the eligibility of self-employment health insurance (isn�t there additional regulation on the elapsed time?)
- Entry: Dec. 18, 2008, Departure: Mar. 15, 2009, Entry: Mar. 17, 2009, Entry: Jun. 15, 2009....
For the person who entered Korea after Dec. 17, 2008, he/she acquires the qualification of self-employment health insurance on the date when 3 months have passed after the entry date. Regardless of the period of stay outside Korea, if he/she does not stay in Korea for a period of at least 3 months, he/she is not entitled to self-employment health insurance.
|
I take this to mean I'm registered as self-employed? O.o;; (A contractor I would assume) |
What are you quoting? Is that from your contract or from a website?
In your contract do they use the term "employee"? If so then you should be have health insurance already. If the contract says something like "contractor" or "independent ____" then you can make a scandal about it at the labor board. You might win, you might not. This issue has come up already with a large shady hogwon chain, but to the best of my knowledge the courts still haven't resolved it yet. i.e. can a school sponsor a foreigner for an E2 visa and still have the teacher down as an independent contractor?
But it all comes down to whether or not you want to rock the boat. If you do, you better be ready to get fired and find a new job. Are they paying you more than normal hogwons pay? Enough to make up for the medical bills? If so, and you like the job, then just stick it out. If not, make a scene about it. |
The NHIC Website is where I quoted that from.
Anyways; This is from my contract:
(About Health Insurance)
| Quote: |
HEALTH PLAN
건강 보험
5.1 The Employer will pay 50% of the premium for the Employee�s health
plan, which is provided by the Employer and are administered through the
Employer. The Employee will be responsible for rest of the costs.
고용주는 피고용인의 건강 보험 가입 시 보험료의 반을 부담하며 그에 관한
것은 고용주가 관장한다. 그 외의 제반 비용은 피고용인이 부담한다. |
The plan they enroll us in is the National Health Care. Everyone here has their NHIC pamphlets, so I know they're enrolling people.
About Pension:
| Quote: |
Pension
pension tax for an average monthly salary is approximately 4.5%
pension is divided 50/50 between teacher and school
school does not deduct the teacher's monthly salary for pension tax, the school
save the teacher's pension tax and returns the pension to the teacher once the
teacher completes the contract. It's about half of payment.
This is not Korea's pension plan, it's the school's pension plan for the teacher.
연금은 급여의 약 4.5%이며, 고용주와 강사와 반반씩 부담한다.
하지만 고용주는 연금세금을 급여에서 제하지 않고 고용주가 강사의 연금
세금을 가지고 있다가 계약만료일에 강사에게 지급하며,
약 급여의 절반 정도이다. 이것은 국민연금제도가 아닌 고용주가 강사에 대한
연금제도이다. |
The pay is good, and it's good company to work for. The other employees are great and the work isn't bad. I do like the stability of the office, but if the pension fund is going to come back and bite me for this... I'm a little concerned. Most of the teachers that work here have worked here for 2 years, so if they're re-signing, I'd think that they seem to like it here as well. |
From what you wrote here and earlier, I would guess that your school is not actually enrolling teachers in the National Health Insurance directly. Instead, by going with the teachers to the NHIC office, they are able to enroll the teachers in the health insurance plan as Independent Contractors. That is, the teacher is actually the responsible party for the payments. The school may withhold and remit on behalf of the teacher, but that does not affect the IC status.
Let me guess: Do you have income taxes withheld at a rate of about 3.3%? That's the IC rate.
Since your school is planning on paying you for their half of the pension, it seems they are trying to be fair as far as your IC status in that you will not lose out on completely what you could have gotten as an employee.
Unfortunately, you will have to wait and reset your time period for health insurance - so in your case you are losing out on coverage at a time that you needed it.
In addition, as an IC, you are responsible for the full 9% of pension. Since your school has promised to pay their half as if you were an employee, even though you are in IC, you are not losing financially. Although you are ultimately the responsible party, you will probably never be asked to pay.
If you are enrolled as an IC, and if you are from a country that can have their pension payments refunded when leaving Korea (I'm guessing that you are), then you can pay it in and get it back if the Pension Office ever does come to you for the money.
And since the Pension Office bureaucrats don't really want to do any work they can avoid, they have little reason to come after an IC foreign teacher for payments that they will have to turn around and refund back to the same teacher in a matter of months or a few years at most. In some circumstances they could still pursue the money, but even if they do, you should get it back. |
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Chimie
Joined: 05 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the help.
My only concern is that I actually NEED the insurance now. Also, I'm not exactly sure why they won't give it to me. I arrived Dec 1, I left to go on a trip to Japan March 1. That's 3 months. If you go by days, that's 91 days. Not sure what's the problem? |
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