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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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 Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:54 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Dave Chance wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| comm wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| "KABUL, Afghanistan � President Hamid Karzai insisted Thursday that the United States confine its troops to major bases in Afghanistan by next year as the Taliban announced that they were suspending peace talks with the Americans, both of which served to complicate the Obama administration�s plans for an orderly exit from the country." |
I, for one, am looking forward to the next poll asking Afghans whether they support continued U.S. military presence. That 2010 one is looking a bit stale! |
Polling is stupid.
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Take it up with The Urban Myth.
He's the one who always turns these discussions into a 'my survey is best' contest. |
Nothing of worth to contribute to the argument at hand?
Didn't think so. |
Ok, you can stop talking to yourself now. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| Dave Chance wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Dave Chance wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| comm wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| "KABUL, Afghanistan � President Hamid Karzai insisted Thursday that the United States confine its troops to major bases in Afghanistan by next year as the Taliban announced that they were suspending peace talks with the Americans, both of which served to complicate the Obama administration�s plans for an orderly exit from the country." |
I, for one, am looking forward to the next poll asking Afghans whether they support continued U.S. military presence. That 2010 one is looking a bit stale! |
Polling is stupid.
|
Take it up with The Urban Myth.
He's the one who always turns these discussions into a 'my survey is best' contest. |
Nothing of worth to contribute to the argument at hand?
Didn't think so. |
Ok, you can stop talking to yourself now. |
The Urban Myth makes a good point. |
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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| Dave Chance wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Dave Chance wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| comm wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| "KABUL, Afghanistan � President Hamid Karzai insisted Thursday that the United States confine its troops to major bases in Afghanistan by next year as the Taliban announced that they were suspending peace talks with the Americans, both of which served to complicate the Obama administration�s plans for an orderly exit from the country." |
I, for one, am looking forward to the next poll asking Afghans whether they support continued U.S. military presence. That 2010 one is looking a bit stale! |
Polling is stupid.
|
Take it up with The Urban Myth.
He's the one who always turns these discussions into a 'my survey is best' contest. |
Nothing of worth to contribute to the argument at hand?
Didn't think so. |
Ok, you can stop talking to yourself now. |
The Urban Myth makes a good point. |
His point is that surveys and polls (his) are reliable and good.
You insisted in your previous post that polls are "stupid".
So now you just come off as someone who's ready to flip-flop at the drop of a hat with no real principle. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| Dave Chance wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| Dave Chance wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Dave Chance wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| comm wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| "KABUL, Afghanistan � President Hamid Karzai insisted Thursday that the United States confine its troops to major bases in Afghanistan by next year as the Taliban announced that they were suspending peace talks with the Americans, both of which served to complicate the Obama administration�s plans for an orderly exit from the country." |
I, for one, am looking forward to the next poll asking Afghans whether they support continued U.S. military presence. That 2010 one is looking a bit stale! |
Polling is stupid.
|
Take it up with The Urban Myth.
He's the one who always turns these discussions into a 'my survey is best' contest. |
Nothing of worth to contribute to the argument at hand?
Didn't think so. |
Ok, you can stop talking to yourself now. |
The Urban Myth makes a good point. |
His point is that surveys and polls (his) are reliable and good.
You insisted in your previous post that polls are "stupid".
So now you just come off as someone who's ready to flip-flop at the drop of a hat with no real principle. |
Except that was not my point at all. It actually was that you are engaging in childish trolling on a serious thread. THAT is what was being agreed with. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:43 am Post subject: |
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I found some more interesting survey information.
"The poll shows that Afghans are implacably against airstrikes by U.S. or NATO troops, with 73 percent saying that they opposed them even if they help to defeat the Taliban."
"Fully 6 percent of respondents in a new poll expressed a �very favorable� opinion of American troops, versus just 2 percent for the fugitive Al Qaeda leader."
"To be fair, the United States scored much higher in the more grudging �somewhat favorable� category, outstripping the world�s most wanted man by 36 percent to just 4. But more than half of all Afghans � 55 percent � want U.S. forces out of their country, and the sooner the better."
"While human rights organizations and women�s advocacy groups mount a spirited campaign against any accommodation with the Taliban, 73 percent of those polled said it was time to negotiate with the insurgents. While the Taliban do not enjoy much popularity in the country � only 9 percent said they would prefer them to the current government � it seems that the appetite for conflict has waned among Afghans, who mainly just want to get on with their lives.
Those who moan about the lack of readiness among the Afghan National Security Forces might be surprised to learn that more than twice as many Afghans think the police are better able to provide security in their areas than U.S. or NATO forces. Of those polled, only 36 percent said they trusted the foreigners to protect them, while 77 percent voted for their local police."
This is from a 2010 poll by The Washington Post, ABC, the BBC and Germany�s ARD, and conducted by the perennial survey organization ACSOR (Afghan Center for Socio-Economic and Opinion Research).
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/afghanistan/101208/afghanistan-war-us-troops-counterinsurgency-public-opinion |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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"Your" poll
| Quote: |
Consistency is not a particularly strong suit among Afghans, if the poll data is to be trusted. The same respondents who lauded the Afghan troops complained bitterly about corruption in the police, with 85 percent of respondents saying it was a big or moderate problem in their area.
Polls are tricky tools, especially in conflict zones. ACSOR itself freely acknowledges that there were many areas it could not go to because of security concerns. That real estate would, of course, include the south, where U.S. and NATO forces are now battling the Taliban. |
In other words a poll based on certain areas of the country...not the country as a whole. Incomplete and biased. Consistency is also a problem.
"My" poll.
| Quote: |
Fear of the Taliban
These are the results of a poll commissioned by the BBC, ABC News (USA) and ARD (Germany), in which 1,691 Afghan adults were interviewed in all of the country�s 34 provinces between 29 October and 13 November 2010...
74% of people thought it was a good thing that the US-led forces had come to Aghanistan to bring down the Taliban. (Down from 83% in 2009.) |
In other words a more complete poll. |
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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
"Your" poll
| Quote: |
Consistency is not a particularly strong suit among Afghans, if the poll data is to be trusted. The same respondents who lauded the Afghan troops complained bitterly about corruption in the police, with 85 percent of respondents saying it was a big or moderate problem in their area.
Polls are tricky tools, especially in conflict zones. ACSOR itself freely acknowledges that there were many areas it could not go to because of security concerns. That real estate would, of course, include the south, where U.S. and NATO forces are now battling the Taliban. |
In other words a poll based on certain areas of the country...not the country as a whole. Incomplete and biased. Consistency is also a problem.
"My" poll.
| Quote: |
Fear of the Taliban
These are the results of a poll commissioned by the BBC, ABC News (USA) and ARD (Germany), in which 1,691 Afghan adults were interviewed in all of the country�s 34 provinces between 29 October and 13 November 2010...
74% of people thought it was a good thing that the US-led forces had come to Aghanistan to bring down the Taliban. (Down from 83% in 2009.) |
In other words a more complete poll. |
I think you should do a "more complete poll" (yours always are) of Americans and ask them whether they would prefer their government to focus more on improving things at home, or engage in conflict-for-profit in foreign countries. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave Chance wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
"Your" poll
| Quote: |
Consistency is not a particularly strong suit among Afghans, if the poll data is to be trusted. The same respondents who lauded the Afghan troops complained bitterly about corruption in the police, with 85 percent of respondents saying it was a big or moderate problem in their area.
Polls are tricky tools, especially in conflict zones. ACSOR itself freely acknowledges that there were many areas it could not go to because of security concerns. That real estate would, of course, include the south, where U.S. and NATO forces are now battling the Taliban. |
In other words a poll based on certain areas of the country...not the country as a whole. Incomplete and biased. Consistency is also a problem.
"My" poll.
| Quote: |
Fear of the Taliban
These are the results of a poll commissioned by the BBC, ABC News (USA) and ARD (Germany), in which 1,691 Afghan adults were interviewed in all of the country�s 34 provinces between 29 October and 13 November 2010...
74% of people thought it was a good thing that the US-led forces had come to Aghanistan to bring down the Taliban. (Down from 83% in 2009.) |
In other words a more complete poll. |
I think you should do a "more complete poll" (yours always are) of Americans and ask them whether they would prefer their government to focus more on improving things at home, or engage in conflict-for-profit in foreign countries. |
Except that the comment that sparked this whole discussion was whether Afghans wanted us there or not.
Whether AMERICANS want to be there is a whole other discussion and quite frankly outside the scope of what we were discussing. |
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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Dave Chance wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
"Your" poll
| Quote: |
Consistency is not a particularly strong suit among Afghans, if the poll data is to be trusted. The same respondents who lauded the Afghan troops complained bitterly about corruption in the police, with 85 percent of respondents saying it was a big or moderate problem in their area.
Polls are tricky tools, especially in conflict zones. ACSOR itself freely acknowledges that there were many areas it could not go to because of security concerns. That real estate would, of course, include the south, where U.S. and NATO forces are now battling the Taliban. |
In other words a poll based on certain areas of the country...not the country as a whole. Incomplete and biased. Consistency is also a problem.
"My" poll.
| Quote: |
Fear of the Taliban
These are the results of a poll commissioned by the BBC, ABC News (USA) and ARD (Germany), in which 1,691 Afghan adults were interviewed in all of the country�s 34 provinces between 29 October and 13 November 2010...
74% of people thought it was a good thing that the US-led forces had come to Aghanistan to bring down the Taliban. (Down from 83% in 2009.) |
In other words a more complete poll. |
I think you should do a "more complete poll" (yours always are) of Americans and ask them whether they would prefer their government to focus more on improving things at home, or engage in conflict-for-profit in foreign countries. |
Except that the comment that sparked this whole discussion was whether Afghans wanted us there or not.
Whether AMERICANS want to be there is a whole other discussion and quite frankly outside the scope of what we were discussing. |
Well inside the boudaries of this thread, which started out as a discussion of the misguided policies of the US gov't/multinational corporations.
And whattaya know, the latest poll indicates the majority of Americans want the military outta there-
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/03/six-in-10-criticize-war-in-afghanistan-most-favor-abandoning-training-mission/
Sixty percent of Americans say the war in Afghanistan has not been not worth fighting and just 30 percent believe the Afghan public supports the U.S. mission there � marking the sour state of attitudes on the war even before the shooting rampage allegedly by a U.S. soldier this weekend.
Indeed a majority in a new ABC News/Washington Post poll, 54 percent, say the United States should withdraw its forces from Afghanistan without completing its current effort to train Afghan forces to become self-sufficient.
The survey was completed Saturday. Early Sunday a U.S. service member allegedly left his base in Kandahar and shot and killed more than a dozen civilians in two nearby villages, an incident certain to raise tensions already inflamed by the U.S. military�s inadvertent burning of Muslim holy books at Bagram Air Base last month. That incident sparked violent protests, including a series of incidents in which Afghan soldiers have turned their guns on U.S. forces.
Against that backdrop, the number of Americans who say the war has not been worth fighting, at 60 percent, is up by 6 points from its level last June to just 4 points from its peak, 64 percent, a year ago. Intensity of sentiment is deeply negative: Forty-four percent feel �strongly� that the war has not been worth fighting. Just 17 percent, by contrast, support it strongly.
Mind you, as indicated above this poll was completed the Saturday before the shootings.
As I'm not really a polls guy to start with, I'll just ask u flat out- What do you think about the US involvement in Afgahanistan, TUM? You think the US gov't should be pumping taxpayers' money into that as opposed to tending to the less than rosy scenario at home? I know of a few Americans who wouldn't mind if those millions of dollars were used for issues ranging from unemployment, medical care, and housing, to education, community development, ... |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Frankly I don't care what they do as I am not American in the first place. But Mr. Leon asked if the locals want the Americans there and I merely pointed out that the most accurate data that we have so far indicates that to be the case.
If indeed that was NOT the majority opinion or should change then I agree that America should get out ASAP. |
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