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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| DIsbell wrote: |
TUM, really? Really?
I'm not sure if your reading comprehension and critical thinking are off or if you're just willfully suspending disbelief for the sake of argument. Saying that Korean students up to Grade 9 have 4-11 credits per week in public school for arts and crafts is pretty absurd.
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Well I would suggest sir, that it is your reading comprehension that is off if you think I said "Korean students up to Grade 9 have 4-11 credits per week in public school for arts and crafts" or anything like that.
I said "Hmm..up to eleven periods at school plus many take music classes after school...doesn't sound all that much less than Korea."
Now I'll break that down for you and explain.
ELEVEN PERIODS does not equal 4-11 CREDITS. When I went to school a "period" was a class.
I never said anything about Korean students taking arts and crafts...I was referring to TIME SPENT IN CLASS. That should have been obvious when I referred to the amount of periods and not the subject.
Also I never said that a Finnish kid's after-school life is about the same as a Korean kid's. The two countries are obviously different. What I said was that if you are taking eleven PERIODS at school plus after school music classes...it doesn't sound like a whole lot less than what many Korean kids have. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Hi, recruiter. You want a pretty young 22 year old teacher? Then when you get left at the alter, it's everyone else's fault other than your own? (IE The backpacker leaves? Sometimes for justifiable reasons and sometimes for unjustifiable reasons.) I have two words for you --> Piss off!!
Change your hiring standards and practices and watch things improve. Not necessarily talking about qualifications. Just attitude, work ethic, sociability, etc. For the record, some young teachers are actually not bad. Some older ones can be losers. But overall, many mature energetic teachers with a work ethic who are well treated by Korean employers will manage just fine.
But, if you want the qualifications on paper, it's going to cost you. A certified teacher, master degree is prob going to want 3 million or more plus housing. But, if you don't want to pay that, then shut up! |
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Red Fleet
Joined: 18 Mar 2012
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| sirius black wrote: |
| sojusucks wrote: |
| Koreans do not really care about qualifications until it is time for propaganda. They hire with extreme discrimination. Such is life in a place with limited "human rights." |
Also, Korea's habit of choosing teachers based solely on a picture. Not to mention limiting the teaching pool to just seven countries (what about the Caribbean, Bermuda, etc. for a start). First, there are more than 7 countries who speak english. Second there are tons of other teachers who have great english speaking and teaching skills from places such as the Philipines as well as Europe. |
I for one would LOVE to see a korean hagwon with a jamaican english teacher! |
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DIsbell
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| DIsbell wrote: |
TUM, really? Really?
I'm not sure if your reading comprehension and critical thinking are off or if you're just willfully suspending disbelief for the sake of argument. Saying that Korean students up to Grade 9 have 4-11 credits per week in public school for arts and crafts is pretty absurd.
. |
Well I would suggest sir, that it is your reading comprehension that is off if you think I said "Korean students up to Grade 9 have 4-11 credits per week in public school for arts and crafts" or anything like that.
I said "Hmm..up to eleven periods at school plus many take music classes after school...doesn't sound all that much less than Korea."
Now I'll break that down for you and explain.
ELEVEN PERIODS does not equal 4-11 CREDITS. When I went to school a "period" was a class.
I never said anything about Korean students taking arts and crafts...I was referring to TIME SPENT IN CLASS. That should have been obvious when I referred to the amount of periods and not the subject.
Also I never said that a Finnish kid's after-school life is about the same as a Korean kid's. The two countries are obviously different. What I said was that if you are taking eleven PERIODS at school plus after school music classes...it doesn't sound like a whole lot less than what many Korean kids have. |
Dude, they have 4-11 periods ("class hours") per week for arts and crafts. That would be 1-2 class periods per day in public school for art and crafts. This is up to Grade 9, i.e. roughly equivalent to the final year of middle school here...
What I'm getting at here is that the Finns take a good chunk of time in the course of a normal public school day just for arts and crafts, and have comparatively minimal after-school organized study. I think kids in Korea probably have a somewhat similar experience until they finish grade one or two, and from then on there's almost assuredly hours of study after school each day. In middle school the difference really becomes pronounced and by high school I'd say you'd be blind not to see a massive difference in the lives of Korean kids and the rest of the OECD (maybe then Japan and parts of China might be comparable?). |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| DIsbell wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| DIsbell wrote: |
TUM, really? Really?
I'm not sure if your reading comprehension and critical thinking are off or if you're just willfully suspending disbelief for the sake of argument. Saying that Korean students up to Grade 9 have 4-11 credits per week in public school for arts and crafts is pretty absurd.
. |
Well I would suggest sir, that it is your reading comprehension that is off if you think I said "Korean students up to Grade 9 have 4-11 credits per week in public school for arts and crafts" or anything like that.
I said "Hmm..up to eleven periods at school plus many take music classes after school...doesn't sound all that much less than Korea."
Now I'll break that down for you and explain.
ELEVEN PERIODS does not equal 4-11 CREDITS. When I went to school a "period" was a class.
I never said anything about Korean students taking arts and crafts...I was referring to TIME SPENT IN CLASS. That should have been obvious when I referred to the amount of periods and not the subject.
Also I never said that a Finnish kid's after-school life is about the same as a Korean kid's. The two countries are obviously different. What I said was that if you are taking eleven PERIODS at school plus after school music classes...it doesn't sound like a whole lot less than what many Korean kids have. |
Dude, they have 4-11 periods ("class hours") per week for arts and crafts. That would be 1-2 class periods per day in public school for art and crafts. This is up to Grade 9, i.e. roughly equivalent to the final year of middle school here...
What I'm getting at here is that the Finns take a good chunk of time in the course of a normal public school day just for arts and crafts, and have comparatively minimal after-school organized study. I think kids in Korea probably have a somewhat similar experience until they finish grade one or two, and from then on there's almost assuredly hours of study after school each day. In middle school the difference really becomes pronounced and by high school I'd say you'd be blind not to see a massive difference in the lives of Korean kids and the rest of the OECD (maybe then Japan and parts of China might be comparable?). |
And what I am getting at here if both long days and short days ( Finland actually has more school days than the U.S and can spend as many as seven hours a day at school) can produce stellar results why not?
Korea isn't Finland...importing the Finnish model over here or to the U.S or to any other country for that matter...isn't necessarily going to work. |
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DIsbell
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:18 am Post subject: |
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And what I am getting at here if both long days and short days ( Finland actually has more school days than the U.S and can spend as many as seven hours a day at school) can produce stellar results why not?
Korea isn't Finland...importing the Finnish model over here or to the U.S or to any other country for that matter...isn't necessarily going to work. |
Because when both produce stellar results at 15 but one is also associated with higher suicide rates and cutthroat competition that puts an insane burden on families to pay for cram school, one might be able to learn something from the other and better serve and provide for their people.
The US absolutely has things to learn from the Finns, and admittedly in a few select cases the Koreans as well (we should probably have more school days), which was my point to begin with. Look, I know you're always on the lookout to defend Korean society from the scummy comments that pop up on Dave's every so often but when I'm commenting or criticizing Korean education, it's not just to Korea-bash. I honestly sympathize with the students I've taught, and I've spent a lot of time talking to my wife about her experiences too. Hell, my sister-in-law just entered university this year, so it's a topic fresh on our minds. And because of the situation in the US, especially with Obama (who I prefer over the alternatives, don't get me wrong) heaping praise on Korean education, I'm also commenting out of concern for things back home.
Finally, there's an article by The Atlantic which points out that Finland is roughly the same size as several US states and actually has more ethnic diversity than a handful of them. Since education in the US is controlled largely at a state level, there are fewer excuses than you might initially think when it comes to attempting some Finnish-style reforms. Aside from roughly half of America having a fetish for free markets for everything, I'd say the Finnish approach is more in line with American culture/values (individuality, equality, etc). |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
Hi, recruiter. You want a pretty young 22 year old teacher? Then when you get left at the alter, it's everyone else's fault other than your own? (IE The backpacker leaves? Sometimes for justifiable reasons and sometimes for unjustifiable reasons.) I have two words for you --> Piss off!!
Change your hiring standards and practices and watch things improve. Not necessarily talking about qualifications. Just attitude, work ethic, sociability, etc. For the record, some young teachers are actually not bad. Some older ones can be losers. But overall, many mature energetic teachers with a work ethic who are well treated by Korean employers will manage just fine.
But, if you want the qualifications on paper, it's going to cost you. A certified teacher, master degree is prob going to want 3 million or more plus housing. But, if you don't want to pay that, then shut up! |
Government jobs, at least, should have a professional and regulated hiring system (GEPIK, EPIK, SMOE etc) whereby only the best available candidates in terms of qualifications and experience get in. You shouldn't have to submit a photo to a website that resembles a beauty pageant, for example. Your resume should be enough.
There should be laws and regulations (as there are in western countries) to ensure that the best people get the jobs. Government schools are not for-profit enterprises, they are awarded public money to ensure quality. But they aren't living up to it. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
You shouldn't have to submit a photo to a website that resembles a beauty pageant, for example. Your resume should be enough. |
I don't get why attaching your picture is such standard practice here. You have to do this for everything. I had take new photos to apply for a boxing license. Pointless. It's not like they don't let you punch people if you're too ugly.
| Quote: |
There should be laws and regulations (as there are in western countries) to ensure that the best people get the jobs. Government schools are not for-profit enterprises, they are awarded public money to ensure quality. But they aren't living up to it. |
To be fair, there probably isn't one country in this world that recruits only the best, regulations or not. [/quote] |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
Hi, recruiter. You want a pretty young 22 year old teacher? Then when you get left at the alter, it's everyone else's fault other than your own? (IE The backpacker leaves? Sometimes for justifiable reasons and sometimes for unjustifiable reasons.) I have two words for you --> Piss off!!
Change your hiring standards and practices and watch things improve. Not necessarily talking about qualifications. Just attitude, work ethic, sociability, etc. For the record, some young teachers are actually not bad. Some older ones can be losers. But overall, many mature energetic teachers with a work ethic who are well treated by Korean employers will manage just fine.
But, if you want the qualifications on paper, it's going to cost you. A certified teacher, master degree is prob going to want 3 million or more plus housing. But, if you don't want to pay that, then shut up! |
Government jobs, at least, should have a professional and regulated hiring system (GEPIK, EPIK, SMOE etc) whereby only the best available candidates in terms of qualifications and experience get in. You shouldn't have to submit a photo to a website that resembles a beauty pageant, for example. Your resume should be enough.
There should be laws and regulations (as there are in western countries) to ensure that the best people get the jobs. Government schools are not for-profit enterprises, they are awarded public money to ensure quality. But they aren't living up to it. |
Personality characteristics are much more important than credentials when hiring teachers and most other types of employees. When interviewing at a distance, by phone, a photo may be the only chance to see the applicant. In person, the applicant will reveal a great deal about their personality in the time the interviewer has to observe them. The appearance of the applicant in a photo can also reveal personality to a lesser extent. It is a valid request. |
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scott
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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space
Last edited by scott on Mon May 14, 2012 6:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:41 am Post subject: |
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It wouldn't matter what the guy did or didn't do, someone would still complain about him.
He could have been the perfect teacher and done everything right,
and then they would turn around and accuse him of being a drug dealer,
spreading aids and teaching illegal private lessons.
There is no pleasing some people. |
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transmogrifier
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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Had a few drinks with an old student of mine who has worked in a couple of hogwans alongside foreign teachers over the ten years I have known her. Very Western in her thinking, has studied overseas etc.
She was very cynical of the competency of many of the native speakers she has worked alongside, and remarked that the best teachers she had worked with were the ones most likely to quit and leave Korea after a year.
However, she squarely laid the blame on the owners of the hogwans who keep hiring terrible teachers. As I noted, it's not as if these teachers are smuggling themselves into Korea on ships and setting up black market teaching rackets.
You can't blame the guy from India, because he had his own goals and was working towards them. He didn't force anyone to hire him. But as long as Korea keeps on hiring warm bodies and then acting shocked when some of those warm bodies turn out to be incompentent, you'll get hilariously incompetent articles like the one that started this thread. Circle of life and all that. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| detonate wrote: |
his email address is right there, did anyone email him?  |
I emailed him. |
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