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Ertai87
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
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 Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:15 am Post subject: [ESL-Blacklist] Pyeongtaek Avalon |
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I got a contract to work at the Pyeongtaek branch of Avalon Hagwon back in September. I have since left, and I would like to describe what I didn't like about it so that others in my position can find information on this school in future (information I was unable to find when I got the position):
1) There is practically no work environment at the school. The Korean teachers are expressly forbidden from talking to the foreign teachers during/after work hours about non-work-related things.
2) The Korean teachers at the school beat the students.
3) The textbooks used at this school are full of English mistakes and bad habits, which get taught to the students.
4) As a teacher there, you are expected to teach the textbook and nothing else. Outside information is outside; you cover the book and do the activities contained within. Activities brought in from outside the book are forbidden.
5) The contract is not respected. The school head reserves the right to fire you at any time for any reason if he believes you are not doing your job. He also reserves the right to alter your work hours and responsibilities as he pleases.
6) The school steals money from its employees. I was underpaid on multiple occasions and had to request the extra money from the school head.
7) The support network at the school is shabby at best. Trying to get anything administrative or bureaucratic done is extremely difficult. As an example, it took me 2 1/2 months to get my ARC Card (a process that should take about 4 weeks).
Those are a few reasons you should not work at this school. Hopefully this information will be useful. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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1. This wouldn't happen if people interacted outside of class time and ignored the school's attempt to control. It's not all the school's fault.
2. Be careful of this allegation. Do you have proof? There is a small chance this could come around to bite you. I would remove it.
3. Yea, this is no different than other schools.
4. This could have been cleared up during the interview. I make sure this isn't the case before I sign a contract.
5. This defines 90%+ of hagwons.
6. A hagwon taking employee's money? Never!!
7. Don't expect anything like this to happen. If you are new to the ESL teaching world, then here's your pass.
These are a few reasons why you should not work at 75% of the hagwons in Korea (afterschool jobs included).
The solution is to just pack up and leave. Enjoy any good days, and usually the first few months are the best. As the school tightens its screws, plan your exit. This is a common tactic to change one thing at a time over the course of a few months to get the actual schedule and workload the school wants.
You can best see what they really want by looking at the contract. If they concede to too many changes, that should be a sign they will change them back as the working period progresses. If business is slow, you will be teaching overtime to the existing students to keep them and you won't get paid. Get ready for that. I wouldn't single out any hagwon in this case. |
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ssuprnova
Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Location: Saigon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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YTMND, what's the point of your post? Should we all just grab our ankles because most hagwons are just as bad (according to you)?
The OP has had a negative experience with that school, which he was considerate enough to share with others who may be tempted to take a position there. Now, hopefully, at least a few people will see this thread and pass on their future job offers. If enough people started passing on crap hagwons, they'd have to improve. |
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nahanni
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for that Ertai.
I wish more people made concise posts such as yours that can be easily searched / found when needed. |
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modernseoul
Joined: 11 Sep 2011
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:50 am Post subject: |
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Firstly I'd like to say I've never worked at the Pyeongtaek branch of Avalon however quickly looking online there are always two sides to every story:
Three reviews of the Hagwon 1 negative (very similar to OP) and 2 positive generally disagreeing
(http://hagwon.reliableteacher.com/avalon-english-pyeongtaek-elementarymiddleivy-campus-hapjeong-dong-gyeonggi-do/)
Blog from a former teacher, nothing negative about the school (http://jadeinsouthkorea.blogspot.co.uk/)
I understand that everyone see's there school in a different light and some people (maybe OP) are treated badly by there school without reason whilst other are treated fine.
Best advice is to try and speak to a current teacher privately thought for example facebook, without your recruiter or the school knowing. They maybe more honest. |
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cheolsu
Joined: 16 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| It's not that I disagree with what you wrote, but you should know that if you plan to stay in Korea, what you wrote leaves you liable to a lawsuit. It is possible for the school to identify you because you mentioned the branch, when you started working there and that you left between now and then. It is possible for the school to claim damages resulting from the second point in your original post. |
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Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:04 am Post subject: |
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| cheolsu wrote: |
| It's not that I disagree with what you wrote, but you should know that if you plan to stay in Korea, what you wrote leaves you liable to a lawsuit. It is possible for the school to identify you because you mentioned the branch, when you started working there and that you left between now and then. It is possible for the school to claim damages resulting from the second point in your original post. |
let em try to sue. Besides if he leaves the country they can't do jack. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:54 am Post subject: |
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| YTMND, what's the point of your post? |
The point was to point out that the original poster's angst could be remedied easily by going to the bar, drinking a soju or 2, and bitching together with a few other friends about the bad things at work. If you are drinking now, maybe you are in a state you don't realize you are not at a bar.
There is really nothing new about what they posted. What they listed shows how hagwons in general behave. Let me ask this, what is the point in the original post? I think it was merely to vent. If you don't take the same caution for EVERY job offer as outlined in the original post, then you are likely to fall victim to a bad school.
| Quote: |
| Should we all just grab our ankles because most hagwons are just as bad (according to you)? |
No, on the contrary, we shouldn't worry if it is one specific hagwon. We should be taking control and making sure the hagwon we sign up with doesn't treat us this way. I had one school when I started in the ESL world who had management that didn't like Americans. We gradually got removed (after 3 months) and replaced with Australians. This gave me a bitter feeling for the blokes down under. Then, I got an interview with an Australian who acted very differently. A complete turn around. I worked for them, in conjunction with the Brits, for 3.5 years.
The point here is that if you find yourself unable to connect with the higher ups due to their prejudice, move on. It doesn't really matter which school it is. These are bumps in the road and are to be avoided. Now, I make sure I talk directly with the manager I am to answer to before signing any contract. When management changes, I make sure the previous manager and I have a meeting with the new manager to get everyone on the same page. When this fails, you move on.
No, you don't grab your ankles, you take control and move on. Not every day is sunny.
Oh, did you hear about Tuesday August 17, 2010? It was such a rainy and cloudy day, we couldn't get any sunshine and enjoy our picnic. The buns were wet, the umbrellas had holes, and it was very windy too.
I guess we should look at the forecast before we set out, eh? Plan ahead, when it rains, move on. Wait for a sunny day. That's all, that's the point. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:19 am Post subject: Re: [ESL-Blacklist] Pyeongtaek Avalon |
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| Ertai87 wrote: |
| I got a contract to work at the Pyeongtaek branch of Avalon Hagwon back in September. I have since left, and I would like to describe what I didn't like about it so that others in my position can find information on this school in future (information I was unable to find when I got the position): |
Avalon is a big chain that cares more about making money than actually teaching their students. It's better than a public school, but one of the worst hogwans for the students.
Avalon pretends to be a good school by recruiting students who have already learned English abroad or at a good hogwan and then parading them around as if they had learned something at Avalon. Tests show that these students learn very little during their time enrolled at Avalon, just slightly more than they do at the public schools.
| Ertai87 wrote: |
| 1) There is practically no work environment at the school. The Korean teachers are expressly forbidden from talking to the foreign teachers during/after work hours about non-work-related things. |
Most employers forbid their workers from wasting time and not working during work hours and at their place of employment, which includes non-work-related discussions. We usually learn this at our first job as a teenager. Welcome to the world of responsible, productive adulthood.
| Ertai87 wrote: |
| 2) The Korean teachers at the school beat the students. |
Korean teachers at nearly every school: public, private and hogwan have a history of beating, hitting etc. for discipline and punishment. This is cultural and it's gradually changing.
In the US this was standard in the schools just a few decades ago. Nearly every principal and many teachers had a "board of education" - a wooden paddle which was used for spanking. Students were hit with rulers, switches and many types of physical punishment were used. Times and societies change, and Korea is changing now.
| Ertai87 wrote: |
| 3) The textbooks used at this school are full of English mistakes and bad habits, which get taught to the students. |
Standard for all public schools and most hogwans. The best materials must be imported, are more expensive and harder for Koreans in charge of programs and purchasing to find. Plus, many Koreans have too much pride to realize that the Korean made English materials are garbage.
| Ertai87 wrote: |
| 4) As a teacher there, you are expected to teach the textbook and nothing else. Outside information is outside; you cover the book and do the activities contained within. Activities brought in from outside the book are forbidden. |
Most foreign teachers who come here waste their students' time when they bring in their own outside activities. They don't have the experience to know what to teach. This is especially true of Education majors with no ESL experience who don't realize that what they learned doesn't apply to ESL.
| Ertai87 wrote: |
| 5) The contract is not respected. The school head reserves the right to fire you at any time for any reason if he believes you are not doing your job. |
He should fire you if you are not doing your job.
| Ertai87 wrote: |
| He also reserves the right to alter your work hours and responsibilities as he pleases. |
Classes, hours and responsibilities change in any school. The same applies to any job.
Again, welcome to the adult world of working.
| Ertai87 wrote: |
| 6) The school steals money from its employees. I was underpaid on multiple occasions and had to request the extra money from the school head. |
This is more serious. However, it sounds like you requested the money and then got it. Maybe it was just an oversight, mistake, sloppy bookkeeping or a cultural misinterpretation. Bookkeepers often underpay and overpay at home and in Korea.
Did you get your money? Did you have to fight for it? Go to the Labor Board?
| Ertai87 wrote: |
| 7) The support network at the school is shabby at best. Trying to get anything administrative or bureaucratic done is extremely difficult. As an example, it took me 2 1/2 months to get my ARC Card (a process that should take about 4 weeks). |
Many foreigners complain about not getting enough support. Did you try going to get your own ARC or did you wait for them to take you?
Last edited by ontheway on Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:29 am; edited 3 times in total |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| No, you don't grab your ankles, you take control and move on. Not every day is sunny. |
Makes sense. Well said.
Oh and one story about one school does not mean much...too many unknowns. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| OP, thanks for posting a heads up for others. Ignore the "everything is always perfect in Korea" apologists. Everyone knows that there are bad schools out there, even the apologists. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| wylies99 wrote: |
| OP, thanks for posting a heads up for others. Ignore the "everything is always perfect in Korea" apologists. Everyone knows that there are bad schools out there, even the apologists. |
I don't know if you are calling me one of those "apologists". I think complaining about one and singling it out is non-productive. That doesn't mean I side with the hagwons. A hagwon only needs to hire one teacher at a time. We can't warn everyone of a bad school. Also, management changes and this really determines the school's merits. Korean teachers will come and go, also shaping our experiences.
My approach would be to go the other direction. Keep track of the good schools and set an example. Help find a good teacher to replace you when you are ready to leave. The bad schools will change if they want to be on a good list or they will have to feed off of the new teachers who don't know better. If you are on Dave's or another ESL site, keeping up with contracts and overall work experiences, it shouldn't be that hard to gauge a good school from a bad one before even going in for the interview. |
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Avalon is collapsing. Avalon right now is sort of like the old TOSS. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:20 am Post subject: Re: [ESL-Blacklist] Pyeongtaek Avalon |
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| Ertai87 wrote: |
I got a contract to work at the Pyeongtaek branch of Avalon Hagwon back in September. I have since left, and I would like to describe what I didn't like about it so that others in my position can find information on this school in future (information I was unable to find when I got the position):
1) There is practically no work environment at the school. The Korean teachers are expressly forbidden from talking to the foreign teachers during/after work hours about non-work-related things.
2) The Korean teachers at the school beat the students.
3) The textbooks used at this school are full of English mistakes and bad habits, which get taught to the students.
4) As a teacher there, you are expected to teach the textbook and nothing else. Outside information is outside; you cover the book and do the activities contained within. Activities brought in from outside the book are forbidden.
5) The contract is not respected. The school head reserves the right to fire you at any time for any reason if he believes you are not doing your job. He also reserves the right to alter your work hours and responsibilities as he pleases.
6) The school steals money from its employees. I was underpaid on multiple occasions and had to request the extra money from the school head.
7) The support network at the school is shabby at best. Trying to get anything administrative or bureaucratic done is extremely difficult. As an example, it took me 2 1/2 months to get my ARC Card (a process that should take about 4 weeks).
Those are a few reasons you should not work at this school. Hopefully this information will be useful. |
What's the big deal? Sounds like an average hagwon to me.  |
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Patong Dong
Joined: 06 May 2003
Location: On Nut
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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ontheway wrote:
Most employers forbid their workers from wasting time and not working during work hours and at their place of employment, which includes non-work-related discussions. We usually learn this at our first job as a teenager. Welcome to the world of responsible, productive adulthood.
Sorry to say that beginning with your first job as a teenager then, you haven't worked in a modern, professional or adult workplace. A normal workplace lets you know what your responsibilities and duties are. As long as those are taken care of a good manager will not worry that you were talking about the ball game in the staff room. How do you think friendships among co-workers begin? I have never worked in an environment where non-work related discussions are prohibited. That's extreme and overstepping the bounds of good management. |
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