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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Richardjw84 wrote: |
| Tower of Babel wrote: |
"Applicants who truly intend to come to Korea to teach and do their best as an educator should ultimately be flexible in terms of their placement."
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That's just bizarre.
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Yes. I mean who ever heard of applicants for a job being expected to be flexible when it comes to being placed?
Truly shocking indeed. It's not like it ever happened before anywhere else in the history of the world.
Sarcasm aside this has been SOP from Day 1. They will try to honor your request as much as possible...but if there are only say 1000 positions in Seoul and 2000 teachers apply...what exactly would you have them do? At least they are letting people know in advance that they may not get the city or location they want. Seems fair enough to me.
They are not obligated in the slightest to give you a job. |
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Richardjw84
Joined: 12 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, that was 'sarcasm'? You really suck at it!
If you want to hide your stupidity in future, it would really help if you read the thread properly. |
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RK12
Joined: 19 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:27 am Post subject: |
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I applaud EPIK for saying it.
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| Applicants who truly intend to come to Korea to teach and do their best as an educator should ultimately be flexible in terms of their placement. |
You are applying for a teaching job and are there for the sake of teaching. EPIK is a big program that works all over Korea and don't specialize in a specific location. Variability in open locations would change all the time and they may not even work with a certain area. If you want a specific location, go to a recruiter to look for jobs in a certain area, look at 학원, or try to apply directly to the public schools. That seems logical doesn't it? But the chance of 학원 scares you off and maybe you want the benefits of public school. Well, they're the one offering possible jobs with those certain benefits. You are not the one that can do all the demanding and expect them to be the one to crumble when they can simply find someone else.
When you are applying to EPIK, you are asking them to find you a public school TEACHING job. You are there for teaching first and foremost not anything else. |
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Tower of Babel
Joined: 29 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| isitts wrote: |
So...see about applying directly for schools under EPIK. |
Indeed, this is the thing to do. I was curious about that before, but now I've got the impetus for fighting to pursue that option. |
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Tower of Babel
Joined: 29 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:16 am Post subject: |
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I still don't get the connection between dedication to teaching and willingness to get on a plane and fly all the way around the world and not care at all where exactly you land. Maybe you think that's fair, maybe you're right that placement requests were taken with a grain of salt anyway, maybe this is the most appropriate way to run a national ptogram like Epik. I still fail to see the connection between not caring at all where you live for a year and being a good teacher. Frankly, I find this to be an irritating trend everywhere at the moment- justifying any old sacrifice teachers end up making by saying, well, if you were truly dedicated to TEACHING, this wouldn't matter to you.
And again, if this is such a no-brainer, why bother including the comment I quoted? Wouldn't it be enough to simply mention the policy change? |
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RK12
Joined: 19 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Tower of Babel wrote: |
I still don't get the connection between dedication to teaching and willingness to get on a plane and fly all the way around the world and not care at all where exactly you land. Maybe you think that's fair, maybe you're right that placement requests were taken with a grain of salt anyway, maybe this is the most appropriate way to run a national ptogram like Epik. I still fail to see the connection between not caring at all where you live for a year and being a good teacher. Frankly, I find this to be an irritating trend everywhere at the moment- justifying any old sacrifice teachers end up making by saying, well, if you were truly dedicated to TEACHING, this wouldn't matter to you.
And again, if this is such a no-brainer, why bother including the comment I quoted? Wouldn't it be enough to simply mention the policy change? |
I include it because on the new EPIK application it only says "Applicants must ultimately be flexible about working anywhere in Korea" instead of also including the part of "Applicants who truly intend to come to Korea to teach and do their best as an educator should ultimately be flexible...."
Why should they put forth consideration for foreigners where the majority are only in Korea for a year to less than five? Where foreigners don't show respect toward Korea and take in consideration of the culture and learn Korean? A respect doesn't mean that the teacher passed the drug and HIV/STDs tests, hasn't been arrested, and being a supreme power that is teaching the "great" language of English to teach their children. Respect and do Korean mannerisms and learning to act Korean outside the classroom and speaking Korean.
When the majority of teachers are only going to stay there for a few years at best (and not the long term) and don't even try to participate in or be considerate of culture while also having a sense of entitlement to them and wanting as much money as they can get, why should EPIK care? When many refuse to learn Korean because Korea is trying to learn English and the teachers are egoistic about their language, why should Korea give a damn about foreigners? Sure, not all foreigners and English teachers are like that in Korea but the majority are.
What would be a good reason that teachers would want to request a certain location? One reason I could think of (that I couldn't think of one person that would) would be they would request Seoul/Gyeonggi because they wanted to take traditional Korean instrument classes at the National Gukak Center (국입국악원) because you specifically had contacted the center and regional branches do not offer classes (though they are considering on creating classes in future years at the Busan branch) and you really want to take classes because you are sincerely interested in learning how to play.
I haven't met a foreigner that inclined toward learning something about Korea and the story above is my own (though if in the future I am not placed near Seoul, I would take 3-4 hours on a bus in order to take those classes because I'm that passionate about 국악). Another good reason is being married and wanting to be where the spouse has a job or family, but then they would have an F2, F4, F5, or F6 and would have a better luck finding better jobs with those type of visas and not need something like EPIK to get you something.
Sure it's a year of one's life, but it's only a year. As previously stated, many are not going to stay in Korea for long term so a year can go by quickly. Teachers could possibly care but they may not know anything about Korea and only heard of Seoul, Busan, and maybe Jeju. People are more inclined to being in Seoul where it's known what is possibly there. I doubt there's someone out there going to be heartbroken because they were gunning for requesting to be placed near 동해시 because they love the scenery of both being close to the ocean as well as 무릉계곡 for hiking and all the little caves as well as the history of \ where scholars have carved their writings and names in 한자 into the rock of the mountain. I seriously doubt that.
I only really see people on these board hoping for Seoul, Gyeonggi (just to be near Seoul), or Busan. Then there's the people who don't really care where they're placed as long as they get a job.
They are giving people teaching job and most teachers are here just for the money or to pay off debts so why care? Give me a reason please. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| RK12 wrote: |
I applaud EPIK for saying it.
| Quote: |
| Applicants who truly intend to come to Korea to teach and do their best as an educator should ultimately be flexible in terms of their placement. |
You are applying for a teaching job and are there for the sake of teaching. EPIK is a big program that works all over Korea and don't specialize in a specific location. Variability in open locations would change all the time and they may not even work with a certain area. If you want a specific location, go to a recruiter to look for jobs in a certain area, look at 학원, or try to apply directly to the public schools. That seems logical doesn't it? But the chance of 학원 scares you off and maybe you want the benefits of public school. Well, they're the one offering possible jobs with those certain benefits. You are not the one that can do all the demanding and expect them to be the one to crumble when they can simply find someone else.
When you are applying to EPIK, you are asking them to find you a public school TEACHING job. You are there for teaching first and foremost not anything else. |
Touche! You are here to teach. You are not here to argue with Anti English spectrum, date Korean women, travel, or otherwise have fun. Shape up or ship out soldier!!
Yeah, seems kind of crappy if you can't request a city. But after some time on the ground, you can prob request a transfer. |
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Modernist
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: The 90s
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| another 'epic' rant from RK12 |
Here's the thing that you seem to be missing. No one, not America or Britain or some global conspiracy of English language imperialists, is forcing Korean schools or parents or professionals or uni students to use or learn English. It's THEIR decision, freely made. They can change it at any time. There's no dictator here any more. No one is stopping them. They could say, as you would apparently prefer them to, that anyone who wants to come here and benefit from this country financially or in any other way has to learn to speak and 'act' Korean. The French do it. The Russians too. The Brazilians. Pretty much all of the rest of Latin America [except Belize and the 3 Gs on the north]. English is the lingua franca but it's hardly universal.
But do you think that if they had done this and kept their so-called culture as 'pure' as you seem to want it--no Western foods in the markets, no Dunkin Donuts or Taco Bell [mmm!] on the streets, no English names on the signs--that they would have developed so strongly, benefiting millions of Korean people who would otherwise be little more than peasants? Or gotten the global trophies like Hyundai and Samsung they are so proud of? Better question: do you think the majority of Korean people would make that trade? No English, no foreigners, just pure Korean culture everywhere, in exchange for little development and no influence? Gosh, isn't there a word for that? Isn't that juche? Isn't there a part of Korea that HAS in fact followed that path for more than a half century now? How's that working out for them?
So as to 'why should they care'? They should care because foreign native speakers have something that they want, as of now, and working with those people so they are comfortable in their location means smoother operations and lower costs overall. Until Korea either stops wanting to learn English or Koreans are capable of teaching it themselves, they need us. And the surge of applicants over the last few years will not last--they know this, at least some of them. If they don't accommodate foreigners somewhat, they won't come. Same reason they pay for our plane tickets, give us apartments, and exempt [some of] us from taxes. The Thais, for example, don't have to do any of that to get native English teachers. You know why? Because non-Thai people actually want to live in Thailand.
Most of the world doesn't now, and never will, care about Korea as much as you do. Sorry. Get used to it. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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The thing that I don't think the administrators of the programs understand is the more prickish you are the more you have to pay in salary.
That's why teachers will go to Thailand for half the money. Koreans have to pay extra for foreigners to put up with the nationalistic BS. It's like Hazard Pay. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| isitts wrote: |
| Richardjw84 wrote: |
| Tower of Babel wrote: |
"Applicants who truly intend to come to Korea to teach and do their best as an educator should ultimately be flexible in terms of their placement."
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That's just bizarre.
I wonder if this could backfire on them, since it could lead to a lot of last minute pull-outs if people get placed somewhere they don't like the look of. Unless they aren't planning on telling people what city they'll be placed in until they've arrived at the orientation?... |
Not really. They probably just had too many people back out when they didn't get the location they wanted. So this is their remedy. I doubt they'll have trouble finding applicants. |
They've been getting tougher and tougher. Just when you think it couldn't get any worse, they go and do something like this. When the US economy finally does recover, they will have to eat their humble pie. Won't they be in for a shock? (I suspect it won't be until 2014 until they finally begin to realize it.) |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
The thing that I don't think the administrators of the programs understand is the more prickish you are the more you have to pay in salary.
That's why teachers will go to Thailand for half the money. Koreans have to pay extra for foreigners to put up with the nationalistic BS. It's like Hazard Pay. |
Yeah, except the exchange rate the past 3 years since the downturn has killed even some of that salary compensation. But, once the economy recovers and hopefully the exchange rate recovers, it will be a better place.
I remember being in a rural nationalistic place prior to the recession. On the one hand more c$%blocking compared to now, but also the ability to stand up to nationalistic bast@rds with no repercusions. There was no penalty and they backed down because they were desperate for foriegners. They couldn't get enough of us into rural areas to meet their quotas. (By they, I mean snitty Korean teachers in the schools or arrogant mangers at a local education office.)
Since moving to a bigger city a couple of years ago, I've found Koreans more friendly. However, I heard from people in my old town just how beligerant managers and K teachers have become and the crap they have to put up with. They know the foriegners are easily replaceable now and are not hesitating to throw their arrogant ajossi power around now. Glad I got out when I did. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| isitts wrote: |
| Richardjw84 wrote: |
| Tower of Babel wrote: |
"Applicants who truly intend to come to Korea to teach and do their best as an educator should ultimately be flexible in terms of their placement."
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That's just bizarre.
I wonder if this could backfire on them, since it could lead to a lot of last minute pull-outs if people get placed somewhere they don't like the look of. Unless they aren't planning on telling people what city they'll be placed in until they've arrived at the orientation?... |
Not really. They probably just had too many people back out when they didn't get the location they wanted. So this is their remedy. I doubt they'll have trouble finding applicants. |
They've been getting tougher and tougher. Just when you think it couldn't get any worse, they go and do something like this. When the US economy finally does recover, they will have to eat their humble pie. Won't they be in for a shock? (I suspect it won't be until 2014 until they finally begin to realize it.) |
I suspect it will take a lot longer than 2014 for the US economy to recover...if indeed it ever does. |
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matthews_world
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:52 am Post subject: |
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It's not a big deal really.
They are the same schools in general. It's up to the teacher to adapt to whatever EPIK condition they are placed in.
There are both negatives and positives for any city or small town in Korea. It's just what you get from it.
You're working alone in a school anyway so make the most of it.
Expats with experience or those already here might get a preference of where to choose after they've been selected. |
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transmogrifier
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| Tower of Babel wrote: |
| I still don't get the connection between dedication to teaching and willingness to get on a plane and fly all the way around the world and not care at all where exactly you land. |
Yeah, I don't get that attitude either. What, being teachers automatically robs us of the natural desire to live and work in an area we actually like and will enjoy? That teaching is this higher calling that automatically makes any demands for material comfort something unclean and impure?
I get a company saying that they can't guarantee city placement. They have to say that, because they can't guarantee city placement. It makes perfect sense, and teachers who know that and sign up anyway can make no complaints.
But to frame that simple fact as some "real teachers wouldn't care about anything other than the teaching" bullshit comes across as condescending. And I can't believe there are posters here who buy into that as well. |
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transmogrifier
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| RK12 wrote: |
I include it because on the new EPIK application it only says "Applicants must ultimately be flexible about working anywhere in Korea" instead of also including the part of "Applicants who truly intend to come to Korea to teach and do their best as an educator should ultimately be flexible...."
Why should they put forth consideration for foreigners where the majority are only in Korea for a year to less than five? Where foreigners don't show respect toward Korea and take in consideration of the culture and learn Korean? A respect doesn't mean that the teacher passed the drug and HIV/STDs tests, hasn't been arrested, and being a supreme power that is teaching the "great" language of English to teach their children. Respect and do Korean mannerisms and learning to act Korean outside the classroom and speaking Korean.
When the majority of teachers are only going to stay there for a few years at best (and not the long term) and don't even try to participate in or be considerate of culture while also having a sense of entitlement to them and wanting as much money as they can get, why should EPIK care? When many refuse to learn Korean because Korea is trying to learn English and the teachers are egoistic about their language, why should Korea give a damn about foreigners? Sure, not all foreigners and English teachers are like that in Korea but the majority are.
What would be a good reason that teachers would want to request a certain location? One reason I could think of (that I couldn't think of one person that would) would be they would request Seoul/Gyeonggi because they wanted to take traditional Korean instrument classes at the National Gukak Center (국입국악원) because you specifically had contacted the center and regional branches do not offer classes (though they are considering on creating classes in future years at the Busan branch) and you really want to take classes because you are sincerely interested in learning how to play.
I haven't met a foreigner that inclined toward learning something about Korea and the story above is my own (though if in the future I am not placed near Seoul, I would take 3-4 hours on a bus in order to take those classes because I'm that passionate about 국악). Another good reason is being married and wanting to be where the spouse has a job or family, but then they would have an F2, F4, F5, or F6 and would have a better luck finding better jobs with those type of visas and not need something like EPIK to get you something.
Sure it's a year of one's life, but it's only a year. As previously stated, many are not going to stay in Korea for long term so a year can go by quickly. Teachers could possibly care but they may not know anything about Korea and only heard of Seoul, Busan, and maybe Jeju. People are more inclined to being in Seoul where it's known what is possibly there. I doubt there's someone out there going to be heartbroken because they were gunning for requesting to be placed near 동해시 because they love the scenery of both being close to the ocean as well as 무릉계곡 for hiking and all the little caves as well as the history of \ where scholars have carved their writings and names in 한자 into the rock of the mountain. I seriously doubt that.
I only really see people on these board hoping for Seoul, Gyeonggi (just to be near Seoul), or Busan. Then there's the people who don't really care where they're placed as long as they get a job.
They are giving people teaching job and most teachers are here just for the money or to pay off debts so why care? Give me a reason please. |
This is at least 95% nonsense. |
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