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madoka

Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject: Discriminatory tests towards black women |
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http://news.yahoo.com/milestone-promotions-us-capitol-police-135846528.html
As Yogananda Pittman and Monique Moore climbed the ranks of the U.S. Capitol Police, they encountered no top-level supervisors who looked like them. No black women, from the chief down to the captains, were represented in the upper management of the federal law enforcement agency responsible for protecting lawmakers and congressional buildings.
So it was more than a personal honor when the two became the first black women promoted to captain in the department, which in the past decade has been roiled by allegations from minority officers that they were passed over for promotions and subjected to racial intimidation and harassment.
"I just definitely think it lets them know that it's attainable," Pittman said of younger black officers. "When you see someone who looks like yourself in the rank of captain and what have you, they know they can do it."
The promotions may seem a pedestrian milestone in the year 2012 but they carry symbolic significance for the agency. Accusations of racism within the department have been addressed at congressional hearings, raised in multiple lawsuits and have drawn particular concern from the Congressional Black Caucus, whose members in 2003 said they were "incensed and embarrassed" by the alleged mistreatment.
Sworn statements from black officers and a 2001 class-action lawsuit brought on behalf of more than 300 current and former officers paint an unflattering portrait of the department. Black officers complained of losing promotions and favorable assignments to less-qualified white officers and of being humiliated in public and harassed with racial epithets. One officer says he found a hangman's noose on a locker; another reported finding a swastika-like symbol. One black officer nicknamed Ike says a K-9 unit dog was given the same name.
That lawsuit is pending after being revived by a federal appeals court in 2009. Other cases have been filed in the past decade, including just this year.
The Capitol Police has challenged at least some of the claims in court papers, denying that race played a role in the promotional process. Police departments have generally been slow to promote black women � partly because of promotional exams often alleged to be discriminatory and more likely to produce higher scores among white test-takers � even at a time when black men are increasingly reflected in upper management, said Christine Cole, a criminal justice policy expert at Harvard's John F. Kennedy School of Government.
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I'd like to know what sort of promotional exam is so discriminatory that it targets black women in particular? |
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pkang0202

Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: Discriminatory tests towards black women |
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madoka wrote: |
I'd like to know what sort of promotional exam is so discriminatory that it targets black women in particular? |
Probably something stupid like the SAT questions that were found discriminatory.
IIRC, the SAT question has something to do with lawmowing and grass, and inner city minorities said it was discriminatory because only white people would have houses with lawns and grasses, so they would be the only people to answer the question correctly.
Ridiculous. I'm no eskimo but I know what an igloo is, how they are made, and how they work. I'm not gonna accuse a test of being discriminatory if they ask a question about igloos and eskimos. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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"Sworn statements from black officers and a 2001 class-action lawsuit brought on behalf of more than 300 current and former officers paint an unflattering portrait of the department. Black officers complained of losing promotions and favorable assignments to less-qualified white officers and of being humiliated in public and harassed with racial epithets. One officer says he found a hangman's noose on a locker; another reported finding a swastika-like symbol. One black officer nicknamed Ike says a K-9 unit dog was given the same name."
Seems to me this is the real story. |
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bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Police departments have generally been slow to promote black women � partly because of promotional exams often alleged to be discriminatory and more likely to produce higher scores among white test-takers � even at a time when black men are increasingly reflected in upper management |
Right. The exams are more likely to produce higher test scores among white test scores. It can't be that the white test takers actually scored higher because of their own merits. The test themselves must be discriminatory - that's the only explanation. Black underachivement is always and everywhere the fault of whites. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012 Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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bigverne wrote: |
Right. The exams are more likely to produce higher test scores among white test scores. It can't be that the white test takers actually scored higher because of their own merits. The test themselves must be discriminatory - that's the only explanation. Black underachivement is always and everywhere the fault of whites. |
I would caution those who'd like to discuss this in a serious manner to be careful of how you phrase your rebuttals because this kind of phrasing could be interpreted in such a manner as to get this thread deleted.
now, if you really want to know how these tests work, I can give an example I recall from some years ago. anything more I'd suggest going online and doing some research, I'm sure it's out there.
the example I recall was an analogy question regarding cups and saucers and plates. the white kids (this was for public school) had no problem associating cups and saucers together - but the minority kids generally also had poorer backgrounds and cups didn't always have matching saucers, much less plates, so they would invariably miss this question and those that were similar.
another common example would be to only have historical figures of "white" importance and to never mention those important in African-American history - which in all manners of education, there shoudn't be a difference but in reality there is. this has been changing, albeit slowly but surely.
when you take these factors apart step by step, it's really not that hard to see how SEC can factor into test taking. unfortunately, the reality it that many minorities do live and grow up in lower SECs than non-minorities; unfortunately, now that many homes are headed by single parents, that too is figuring into the mix. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:08 am Post subject: |
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luckylady wrote: |
bigverne wrote: |
Right. The exams are more likely to produce higher test scores among white test scores. It can't be that the white test takers actually scored higher because of their own merits. The test themselves must be discriminatory - that's the only explanation. Black underachivement is always and everywhere the fault of whites. |
I would caution those who'd like to discuss this in a serious manner to be careful of how you phrase your rebuttals because this kind of phrasing could be interpreted in such a manner as to get this thread deleted.
now, if you really want to know how these tests work, I can give an example I recall from some years ago. anything more I'd suggest going online and doing some research, I'm sure it's out there.
the example I recall was an analogy question regarding cups and saucers and plates. the white kids (this was for public school) had no problem associating cups and saucers together - but the minority kids generally also had poorer backgrounds and cups didn't always have matching saucers, much less plates, so they would invariably miss this question and those that were similar.
another common example would be to only have historical figures of "white" importance and to never mention those important in African-American history - which in all manners of education, there shoudn't be a difference but in reality there is. this has been changing, albeit slowly but surely.
when you take these factors apart step by step, it's really not that hard to see how SEC can factor into test taking. unfortunately, the reality it that many minorities do live and grow up in lower SECs than non-minorities; unfortunately, now that many homes are headed by single parents, that too is figuring into the mix. |
I remember the isssue with the cups and saucers question. When I was young my family (White folks) didn't have saucers for our cups, but I sure knew what a saucer was anyway. There were many things we didnt have, but I still knew what they were.
And SAT tests have had reading passages about minorities for a long time, not just recently. When prepping for the SATs back in the day my teacher told us this little trick. When you come to the reading passage about the black, Hispanic. Native etc. don't read it and just choose the answers that puts the minority in the best light. Big time saver. |
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madoka

Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:14 am Post subject: |
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According to that article, whites can pass those promotional exams and apparently an increasing number of black men can as well. But it specifically states that those exams discriminate against black women. That's the part I find puzzling. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012 Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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and these are written exams?
I know there were questionable physical requirements for firemen some years ago, which were alleged to discriminate against all women in general but don't know about these other than what I mentioned. |
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bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004
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Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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I know there were questionable physical requirements for firemen some years ago, which were alleged to discriminate against all women in general |
Like being able to carry grown adults out of burning buildings? |
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Joe Boxer

Joined: 25 Dec 2007 Location: Bundang, South Korea
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Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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bigverne wrote: |
Quote: |
I know there were questionable physical requirements for firemen some years ago, which were alleged to discriminate against all women in general |
Like being able to carry grown adults out of burning buildings? |
And driving the big truck! |
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Hugo85
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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luckylady wrote: |
the example I recall was an analogy question regarding cups and saucers and plates. the white kids (this was for public school) had no problem associating cups and saucers together - but the minority kids generally also had poorer backgrounds and cups didn't always have matching saucers, much less plates, so they would invariably miss this question and those that were similar.
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Seems to me like this would apply to kids of poorer background regardless of color.
And I agree with Madoka, I don't see how a test can be specifically be geared towards making black females fail. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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Hugo85 wrote: |
And I agree with Madoka, I don't see how a test can be specifically be geared towards making black females fail. |
Maybe there was a question about two-parent households? |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012 Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Joe Boxer wrote: |
bigverne wrote: |
Quote: |
I know there were questionable physical requirements for firemen some years ago, which were alleged to discriminate against all women in general |
Like being able to carry grown adults out of burning buildings? |
And driving the big truck! |
good to know all the high-iq'rs are in this thread
there were height requirements and yes, weight carrying capacity as well, but from what I recall, men of shorter stature were also claiming this discriminated against them as well and the height req was lowered. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012 Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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geldedgoat wrote: |
Hugo85 wrote: |
And I agree with Madoka, I don't see how a test can be specifically be geared towards making black females fail. |
Maybe there was a question about two-parent households? |
rather than opine from such a noticeably dry well of knowledge, why not just look it up and find the research? |
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bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004
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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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there were height requirements and yes, weight carrying capacity as well |
Hardly 'questionable physical requirements' for a firefighter.
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rather than opine from such a noticeably dry well of knowledge, why not just look it up and find the research? |
The tests do not 'discriminate' against specific groups. The problem is that we live in an age where differing outcomes of groups are themselves seen as evidence of racism, sexism, etc. |
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