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JulieBethCO
Joined: 12 Jan 2012
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 Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:56 am Post subject: Flight reimbursement policy change? |
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I recently accepted a position with a pubic school in Busan. My recruiter seems to be straight forward; however, I was surprised he didn't mention that there was a policy change in flight reimbursement until now. He said now you must wait 6 months to be reimbursed.
Does anyone know of the policy change that occurred in February? Or is this a common policy?
Excerpt from his email:
"Previously, I informed you that once you have your ARC, the flight entrance allowance will be transferred into your Korean bank account. However, new policy has come into effect since February this year whereby you will only receive your flight entrance allowance once you have been here for a total of 6 months." |
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plchron
Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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read the contract you signed. it should say quite clearly when it is paid.
If the contract is any of the normal epik ones that I have seen then you should get it in the first month. If it has been modified then you can either go along with it or pass. most schools still pay up front (hagwon) or pay you back within the first month. |
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sweetkiss
Joined: 04 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| yeah i think the new epik contracts are like that so if u have quit before 6 months then u have to pay back the flight reimbursement and if u quit after 6 months (before the year is up) you dont get ur flight imbursement going out |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:23 am Post subject: |
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The only situation in which I would buy my own ticket to Korea is if I didn't already have a visa before coming. If you are getting the work visa before coming to Korea, then the school should provide you with a ticket. At the very least, they should reimburse you within the first month, but I'd only accept that from a public school. Once you have the E2 visa, you can't contract with another school unless you terminate the visa and go through the whole visa application process again. They know this. Withholding the reimbursement of airfare is just a thing that school try to use to coerce you into sticking around even if they treat you badly. If a school is setting up a situation like that, then you can probably guess why. Either they don't trust you, or they are intending to cut their losses later on the off chance that they want to can you for whatever reason. Neither is going to work out well for you.
Pass on this job offer. There're plenty more schools looking to hire. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Flight reimbursement policy change? |
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| JulieBethCO wrote: |
I recently accepted a position with a pubic school in Busan. My recruiter seems to be straight forward; however, I was surprised he didn't mention that there was a policy change in flight reimbursement until now. He said now you must wait 6 months to be reimbursed.
Does anyone know of the policy change that occurred in February? Or is this a common policy?
Excerpt from his email:
"Previously, I informed you that once you have your ARC, the flight entrance allowance will be transferred into your Korean bank account. However, new policy has come into effect since February this year whereby you will only receive your flight entrance allowance once you have been here for a total of 6 months." |
Sounds like the public schools have had so many runners who have left after payday and without repaying their incoming tickets during the first 6 months that they've changed their reimbursement policy. No surprise really and no problem for teachers who intend to honor their contracts. If you stay 6 months you get the money and if you run you don't have to pay back airfare that you never received. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Flight reimbursement policy change? |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| JulieBethCO wrote: |
I recently accepted a position with a pubic school in Busan. My recruiter seems to be straight forward; however, I was surprised he didn't mention that there was a policy change in flight reimbursement until now. He said now you must wait 6 months to be reimbursed.
Does anyone know of the policy change that occurred in February? Or is this a common policy?
Excerpt from his email:
"Previously, I informed you that once you have your ARC, the flight entrance allowance will be transferred into your Korean bank account. However, new policy has come into effect since February this year whereby you will only receive your flight entrance allowance once you have been here for a total of 6 months." |
Sounds like the public schools have had so many runners who have left after payday and without repaying their incoming tickets during the first 6 months that they've changed their reimbursement policy. No surprise really and no problem for teachers who intend to honor their contracts. If you stay 6 months you get the money and if you run you don't have to pay back airfare that you never received. |
And if your employer wants to can you during the first 6 months, they have nothing to lose. |
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warmachinenkorea
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Most people want to get that flight off their credit cards now people have to wait 6 months to do that. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| warmachinenkorea wrote: |
| Most people want to get that flight off their credit cards now people have to wait 6 months to do that. |
A charge on the credit card for just a flight can easily be paid off after one month in Korea. That's not the issue. The issue is whether or not we should be reimbursed for a flight to begin with.
I would look at any security deposits to determine my position on this. If we look at only one variable, then there is no way to judge. If the school took out 200,000 for the first 3 months, than you would be out about half of the flight money. If you accepted a lower salary, then you would be out 900,000. So, basically, the actual amount is not the issue either.
If they want 6 months, fine, then I want a higher salary to compensate for it for 6 months at least. If the salary was 2.2 starting out, then I would want 2.4 for 5 months, 2.3 for the 6th month and whatever was left from the unpaid airfare reimbursement. From the 7th month, they can pay the 2.2.
Either that, something better, or don't take the job. |
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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Flight reimbursement policy change? |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| JulieBethCO wrote: |
I recently accepted a position with a pubic school in Busan. My recruiter seems to be straight forward; however, I was surprised he didn't mention that there was a policy change in flight reimbursement until now. He said now you must wait 6 months to be reimbursed.
Does anyone know of the policy change that occurred in February? Or is this a common policy?
Excerpt from his email:
"Previously, I informed you that once you have your ARC, the flight entrance allowance will be transferred into your Korean bank account. However, new policy has come into effect since February this year whereby you will only receive your flight entrance allowance once you have been here for a total of 6 months." |
Sounds like the public schools have had so many runners who have left after payday and without repaying their incoming tickets during the first 6 months that they've changed their reimbursement policy. No surprise really and no problem for teachers who intend to honor their contracts. If you stay 6 months you get the money and if you run you don't have to pay back airfare that you never received. |
The foreign scumbags just keep coming. Weaseling a free ride to Asia out of a school.  |
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warmachinenkorea
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| A charge on the credit card for just a flight can easily be paid off after one month in Korea. That's not the issue. |
I know many people who don't have a chance to start paying back their debt for the first 3 months they're here. Some people come over with debt others don't.
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| The issue is whether or not we should be reimbursed for a flight to begin with. |
How is this an issue? It's part of the package for the job.
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I would look at any security deposits to determine my position on this. If we look at only one variable, then there is no way to judge. If the school took out 200,000 for the first 3 months, than you would be out about half of the flight money. If you accepted a lower salary, then you would be out 900,000. So, basically, the actual amount is not the issue either.
If they want 6 months, fine, then I want a higher salary to compensate for it for 6 months at least. If the salary was 2.2 starting out, then I would want 2.4 for 5 months, 2.3 for the 6th month and whatever was left from the unpaid airfare reimbursement. From the 7th month, they can pay the 2.2.
Either that, something better, or don't take the job. |
I have no idea what you're talking about here. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| I know many people who don't have a chance to start paying back their debt for the first 3 months they're here. Some people come over with debt others don't. |
If you have a debt back home, you shouldn't be using Korea as a get out of jail free card. Boo hoo if they owe money for debts already incurred. The employer and fellow employees/teachers shouldn't have to standardize their contracts in accordance to someone who owes money back home. In fact, if they owe money, I would say that is a stronger argument to put the airfare responsibilities on that employee/teacher instead of allowing them to leach off the system through an employer.
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| How is this an issue? It's part of the package for the job. |
China and Japan don't have this perk. Face it, the economy is changing and finances are shrinking. I don't see where it states airfare is mandatory or a legal obligation of the employer. If you come to Korea without prior debts, you can easily earn enough money to live comfortably and save. Of course, negotiate with airfare included, but don't expect it as a given.
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| I have no idea what you're talking about here. |
When you finish a contract, they pay something called severance. This is about the average of your last 3 months (it's like a free 13th month without working). If you continue into a second year with the same school, you either start from zero, or they keep the first year's severance, and you get more severance if you leave partly through the second year. My airfare idea is similar in that you get paid more the longer you stay. If you want to get all your airfare, finish 6 months. However, you won't have to wait all 6 months to get some of it back. I find this a happy middle ground.
One thing you new teachers don't realize is that schools often take out security deposits, so even though they pay for your airfare you don't get 100% of your salary. Money is often withheld. If the school agrees to waive these withholdings in exchange for higher payment as you go, then you won't have your money in their hands at the end of the year. After you work for a few shady hagwons, you will see this is the better path to take. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I know many people who don't have a chance to start paying back their debt for the first 3 months they're here. Some people come over with debt others don't. |
If you have a debt back home, you shouldn't be using Korea as a get out of jail free card. Boo hoo if they owe money for debts already incurred. The employer and fellow employees/teachers shouldn't have to standardize their contracts in accordance to someone who owes money back home. In fact, if they owe money, I would say that is a stronger argument to put the airfare responsibilities on that employee/teacher instead of allowing them to leach off the system through an employer.
| Quote: |
| How is this an issue? It's part of the package for the job. |
China and Japan don't have this perk. Face it, the economy is changing and finances are shrinking. I don't see where it states airfare is mandatory or a legal obligation of the employer. If you come to Korea without prior debts, you can easily earn enough money to live comfortably and save. Of course, negotiate with airfare included, but don't expect it as a given.
| Quote: |
| I have no idea what you're talking about here. |
When you finish a contract, they pay something called severance. This is about the average of your last 3 months (it's like a free 13th month without working). If you continue into a second year with the same school, you either start from zero, or they keep the first year's severance, and you get more severance if you leave partly through the second year. My airfare idea is similar in that you get paid more the longer you stay. If you want to get all your airfare, finish 6 months. However, you won't have to wait all 6 months to get some of it back. I find this a happy middle ground.
One thing you new teachers don't realize is that schools often take out security deposits, so even though they pay for your airfare you don't get 100% of your salary. Money is often withheld. If the school agrees to waive these withholdings in exchange for higher payment as you go, then you won't have your money in their hands at the end of the year. After you work for a few shady hagwons, you will see this is the better path to take. |
Asides from sounding like a pompous ass, you need to realize that 100 % of the worlds' population is not in the same boat as you. Korea use to be a good place to pay off debts. The global recession, flooded market place, and reduced exchange rate has changed this. It's still possible but will take much longer to pay things off compared to before.
Many Chinese hakwons are starting to pay for flights and give free housing allowances. Ultimately, it comes down to supply and demand,k especially demand. |
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warmachinenkorea
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I know many people who don't have a chance to start paying back their debt for the first 3 months they're here. Some people come over with debt others don't. |
If you have a debt back home, you shouldn't be using Korea as a get out of jail free card. Boo hoo if they owe money for debts already incurred. The employer and fellow employees/teachers shouldn't have to standardize their contracts in accordance to someone who owes money back home. In fact, if they owe money, I would say that is a stronger argument to put the airfare responsibilities on that employee/teacher instead of allowing them to leach off the system through an employer.
| Quote: |
| How is this an issue? It's part of the package for the job. |
China and Japan don't have this perk. Face it, the economy is changing and finances are shrinking. I don't see where it states airfare is mandatory or a legal obligation of the employer. If you come to Korea without prior debts, you can easily earn enough money to live comfortably and save. Of course, negotiate with airfare included, but don't expect it as a given.
| Quote: |
| I have no idea what you're talking about here. |
When you finish a contract, they pay something called severance. This is about the average of your last 3 months (it's like a free 13th month without working). If you continue into a second year with the same school, you either start from zero, or they keep the first year's severance, and you get more severance if you leave partly through the second year. My airfare idea is similar in that you get paid more the longer you stay. If you want to get all your airfare, finish 6 months. However, you won't have to wait all 6 months to get some of it back. I find this a happy middle ground.
One thing you new teachers don't realize is that schools often take out security deposits, so even though they pay for your airfare you don't get 100% of your salary. Money is often withheld. If the school agrees to waive these withholdings in exchange for higher payment as you go, then you won't have your money in their hands at the end of the year. After you work for a few shady hagwons, you will see this is the better path to take. |
Never had any money for a deposit deducted from my account.
Took this gig because of student loan debt. My parents were drug addicts and spent everything we had on dope, crack, meth etc.. I'm the first in my family to go to college. I got debt that way. I have been paying my wife's and my loans for 3.5 years no one is using this as a get out of jail free card.
95% of jobs ads for China do at least $800-1000 on a plane ticket. The only jobs in Korea that don't are Uni jobs. Japan used to until they hit a wall. If the employer offers to bring you over they need to buy the ticket or pay you in a reasonable time. 6 months is not a reasonable time.
I'm sorry you got so hurt over my small statement. But are you sure you're just not angry today. No one has said anything about 3/4 of the stuff you're spitting out. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| you need to realize that 100 % of the worlds' population is not in the same boat as you. |
Therefore, Korea is responsible for paying us airfare? I am missing your logic. How has the rest of the world's financial problems become Korea's responsibility? Instead of sounding like a greedy teenager, learn to budget yourself. There is no reason why you can't pay monthly bills while still saving. A person with $1,500/month in loans has some serious issues. Do the math, that would mean a person would owe $18,000!!! At which point should they take the responsibility and not borrow more money? After 20,000? 40,000? How much does one person need to have?
Also, paying off loans instead of investing your money is not a smart move. If you do a little homework, you can learn to pay off loans with money you make through investing.
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| Many Chinese hakwons are starting to pay for flights and give free housing allowances. |
You mean rent by "housing allowances"? The housing issue then is not really a variable here then, since no one is asking the teacher to pay any of the security deposits (called yajin in Chinese) but the yajin would be just a 7th month of rent if you rented for 6 months. Some places allow for 3, but they try to get you to sign up for 1 year or 6 months. In Korea, the security deposits are much higher. Not even in the same ballpark. The flight money they give in China isn't as much as you think. I am in Beijing, and I was in Shanghai in 2010. Of any of the places, these are the highest.
And, if you read the contracts, you will see they don't pay for the airfare upfront usually. You have to finish 6 months to get it back. Both your comparisons with airfare in China and security deposits don't even come close to what Korea gives.
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| Never had any money for a deposit deducted from my account. |
I never said you did. I even signed one contract in Korea which said they would, and they never did. The point of bringing it up wasn't to state a fact, but a negotiable term. If they aren't, then it makes the argument stronger, they don't want teachers leaving before 6 months.
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| Took this gig because of student loan debt. |
Then, you get my sympathies in regard to monthly payments. If you want Korea to be your sugar daddy so you can pay it off earlier, look elsewhere. It makes it look bad for the rest of us.
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| I'm the first in my family to go to college. I got debt that way. |
That's odd, you would think the oldest would get the money so they could go to college, then get a job. The money they make after college could help the younger siblings. The fact you say you don't have money means what? Your parents would have a lot more money after you left? Were you really a financial burden to them? Your actions support this. Either that, or you are hoping your younger siblings win the lotto.
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| 95% of jobs ads for China do at least $800-1000 on a plane ticket. |
Read the contracts, they say they will pay them after 6 months. Also, you guys are comparing this to a Chinese job which pays half the salary of a Korean job. You really prefer earning half the monthly salary so you can pretend on these forums you get full airfare before you start a contract period? You simply don't have your facts. Maybe you are wishing the grass is greener over here. It may be, but not for financial reasons.
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| If the employer offers to bring you over they need to buy the ticket or pay you in a reasonable time. 6 months is not a reasonable time. |
Tell that to China and the Korean Labor Board. They don't agree with you.
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| But are you sure you're just not angry today. No one has said anything about 3/4 of the stuff you're spitting out. |
Not angry, just bursting bubbles in dreamland. You think it's your right to demand airfare, and while you have nothing to support this, you reference China of all countries as a basis to support your fragile argument.
I am humbly informing you that you are lacking a lot of information and that you should look into this more to see what I am saying. Then, maybe your attitude will change.
Also, I never said you shouldn't try to get airfare. Just don't expect it. That is a contractual arrangement between you and the employer. It's not a labor law issue. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
| How is this an issue? It's part of the package for the job. |
China and Japan don't have this perk. Face it, the economy is changing and finances are shrinking. I don't see where it states airfare is mandatory or a legal obligation of the employer. If you come to Korea without prior debts, you can easily earn enough money to live comfortably and save. Of course, negotiate with airfare included, but don't expect it as a given.
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True, but the work visas in China and Japan don't lock you into one employer. Really the big attraction to Korea is relatively good salaries and low (or zero) upfront cost to start a job here. Sure other countries offer better salaries, but most of them require some investment before coming. If Korean schools stop offering airfare (upfront) and housing, then they'll lose a lot of teachers. Why come here when you can get a better salary in Japan or a similar salary in Taiwan, Hong Kong, or even Vietnam? Factor in that even if the flight reimbursement is "promised" for 6 months later, Korean schools have a reputation for firing foreign teachers on a whim or to save a few bucks.
Anyone remember back when 11th month firings were all the fad? It just happened that teachers all of a sudden became terrible at doing there jobs just before they finished their 1 year contracts. Just a coincidence that the schools go to save a lot of money by not paying severance or return airfare. Unless the government is going to prevent schools from taking advantage of teachers regarding the promised airfare reimbursement, then schools are going to have to offer more to keep teachers coming. |
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