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Pension
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obelisk45



Joined: 22 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:34 am    Post subject: Pension Reply with quote

I am leaving soon, and am trying to get my pension sorted out. My school recently told me that they weren't paying me into it (and I wasn't quite sure). I'd go to the pension office and complain, but the one trouble is that it doesn't specifically say that they will pay it in my contract. Do I have any rights here or am I SOL?
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does it say you are "employee" in the contract or just "teacher" or "instructor"? If it specifically says employee, then you might have a fighting chance. However, the pension office won't give you the money until they get it from the school.

Since you are near the end, it might be best to negotiate something. Ask for 80-85% of the money they would have owed or else you will try to collect on all 100% by going to the pension office.

When to say this is another gamble. You could wait until they have paid your last salary payment with severance and made plans for your departure flight. Another idea, if you are really willing to take legal action is to bring it up now, risking the chance the school will feel bitter and choose not to give you severance and airfare. In that situation, you might have a stronger case if the court sees an employer who hasn't paid into pension and isn't paying severance or airfare.
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bbunce



Joined: 28 Sep 2011

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your contract doesn't mention pension or insurance then you're screwed. Chalk it up as a learning experience and forget it.
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Troglodyte



Joined: 06 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless in your contract it is always written "contractor" instead of "employee" then you are 100% guaranteed pension. It's the law. It's not a contractual thing. It doesn't matter if it's in your contract or not. The law says that both you and your employer must pay into it.

Even if your contract does say "contractor" you can still go to the pension office and fight it. Contrary to what one particular person on this forum will tell you (it's a guarantee that he'll post a comment soon) the courts have not yet said that it's legal for an E2 visa holder to be employed yet as an independent contractor. There is a large hogwon chain that is currently trying to get it legalized but not verdict yet.

Has your boss been making pension, health insurance and tax deductions from your pay? If so, then you definitely want to get your pension rebate because if not, then YOUR BOSS WAS STEALING FROM YOU! In fact even if he wasn't making the deductions from your pay then he's still stealing from you because he didn't make his contributions which are a legal benefit owed to you. All you have to do is pay in your half and he'll be forced to do the same. The pension office doesn't like to be cheated any more than you or me. The difference is that they have to teeth to enforce the law.
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wylies99



Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbunce wrote:
If your contract doesn't mention pension or insurance then you're screwed. Chalk it up as a learning experience and forget it.


Not true. It's the law.
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wylies99 wrote:
bbunce wrote:
If your contract doesn't mention pension or insurance then you're screwed. Chalk it up as a learning experience and forget it.


Not true. It's the law.


And who is going to enforce the law? This adds an expense to the Koreans when their government has to chase down delinquent employers of foreigners who pretty much aren't getting jobs in their home country.
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wylies99



Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YTMND wrote:
wylies99 wrote:
bbunce wrote:
If your contract doesn't mention pension or insurance then you're screwed. Chalk it up as a learning experience and forget it.


Not true. It's the law.


And who is going to enforce the law? This adds an expense to the Koreans when their government has to chase down delinquent employers of foreigners who pretty much aren't getting jobs in their home country.


You can visit the pension and health insurance offices with your contract and ARC. If you are legally employed in Korea you must be covered.
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wylies99 wrote:
YTMND wrote:
wylies99 wrote:
bbunce wrote:
If your contract doesn't mention pension or insurance then you're screwed. Chalk it up as a learning experience and forget it.


Not true. It's the law.


And who is going to enforce the law? This adds an expense to the Koreans when their government has to chase down delinquent employers of foreigners who pretty much aren't getting jobs in their home country.


You can visit the pension and health insurance offices with your contract and ARC. If you are legally employed in Korea you must be covered.


I agree and understand the ruling. The enforcing is what I am questioning. Who are the thugs who will collect on an employer who refuses to pay into the system? This is an added expense Koreans probably don't want to finance, so they will treat the ambiguities in contracts not in the teacher's favor. They are already weeding people out with CRC's and multiple health checks.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the case of the Pension Office, the "thugs" happen to be the Pension Office itself. They have the authority, and they use it, to dun the employer's accounts.
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralCali wrote:
In the case of the Pension Office, the "thugs" happen to be the Pension Office itself. They have the authority, and they use it, to dun the employer's accounts.


No, you are not getting me clearly. If the situation was black and white as you are painting it, then YES I agree. I am talking about if the pension office doesn't know.
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bbunce



Joined: 28 Sep 2011

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best to take your contract to the pension office and see what they say. If they say you are required to be covered, be prepared to pay all the months you didn't pay your share plus insurance premiums since the two are tied together. I don't know what the result is (your bosses 4.5%-1/2 the insurance premium) but it's probably not very much at all. Also, probably best to wait until you've got your last month's salary, airfare, plus severance. You could lose alot more by making a stink about it now. Just curious, have they been taking out anything from your check? Do you even know?
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Troglodyte



Joined: 06 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

YTMND wrote:
CentralCali wrote:
In the case of the Pension Office, the "thugs" happen to be the Pension Office itself. They have the authority, and they use it, to dun the employer's accounts.


No, you are not getting me clearly. If the situation was black and white as you are painting it, then YES I agree. I am talking about if the pension office doesn't know.


That's why some of us are telling the OP to go to the pension office and report his employer. That way the pension office DOES know about it.

And what do you mean about 'extra expenses' that the government doesn't want to incur by trying to collect on taxes? Do you think that any government office that is owed money and has the ability to simply take it from someone's bank account will just shrug it off. Hell no! They way the money that's owed to them. And in addition, they'll most likely fine the employer for breaking the law. (It's actually the employer's responsibility to collect it from the employee and pay, so the OP doesn't have to worry about this.)
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That way the pension office DOES know about it.


They will know there is a claim, but they will not know if the person is an employee.

Quote:
And in addition, they'll most likely fine the employer for breaking the law


Again, they have to have proof that the person is an employee. Without that, they won't do anything.
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Troglodyte



Joined: 06 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

YTMND wrote:
Quote:
That way the pension office DOES know about it.


They will know there is a claim, but they will not know if the person is an employee.

Quote:
And in addition, they'll most likely fine the employer for breaking the law


Again, they have to have proof that the person is an employee. Without that, they won't do anything.


Are you kidding? If the pension office (or in fact any government office that is entitled to collect money from a person or organisation) finds out that they aren't receiving their due, you can bet they WILL track it down. It's one thing to try to track down an individual person who may have left the country, but unless a business goes bankrupt or closes or whatever then the pension office isn't going to have a hard time tracking them down. Simply showing them that you have a contract or even a work visa is enough to prove that you're an employee. Immigration will also have a copy of your work contract.

I don't know anyone who went to the the pension office to report their employer and didn't get it resolved. Sure, sometimes it takes a couple months get the really stubborn hogwon owners to pay up, but eventually they do (or the pension office just gets it taken out of their bank account). A lot of the ones that are doing other shady stuff WILL pay up when the pension office tells them to. If for not other reason, they do it because they don't want anyone investigating and finding out what other shady stuff their doing (or not doing). They also don't want to have a record of not paying. IF the school back pays all pension before your job finishes, then they don't get fined (if I recall correctly - i could be wrong on that one) so they have a major incentive to do it.

The labor board isn't another story. When they 'help' you go get what YOU are owed (e.g. severance, back pay, etc.) they don't always help. When I first came here, they were utterly useless and often said that there was nothing they could do. I haven't had to go to them myself in recent years but from what friends tell me, they're also a lot more helpful these days.

But who knows, maybe the taxman in Korea isn't as vigilant as in the rest of the world. Still, I'm quite sure that what they say about death and taxes is probably just as true in Korea as it is elsewhere.

To the OP, just so that you know, if you're planning on sticking around in Korea afterwards, you're probably best off requesting that they back pay the pension AFTER you start your new job. That way the school can't really do much to make your life miserable. It's just as legal for you to do it before or after this job ends. There's no penalty to YOU for paying your share late.
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
they aren't receiving their due


ASSUMING that is true, then I agree with you. You seem to fail to understand this concept. I am talking about if they are unsure. Another poster in this thread summed it up nicely, "If they say you are required to be covered", emphasis on the word "if".

Quote:
Simply showing them that you have a contract


I disagree. What is stated in the contract holds the weight.

Quote:
if you're planning on sticking around in Korea afterwards, you're probably best off requesting that they back pay the pension AFTER you start your new job.


I agree there. If you are going to claim anything, then wait. However, the impression I got was that the OP is going to "leave", as in go back to their home country.
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