| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
HawkesBayBoy
Joined: 08 May 2011
|
 Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:26 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Re Julius
What I wrote is exactly what happened and if you had seen earlier I had admited to playfully tapping kids every now and then, and my problem ws I couldnt remember if I had done it to this child. thats why i was concerned if cctv showed me having any phyical contact with this student it could be misinturpd as more than it was.
gez i even get my kids that learn TaeKwondo to show me a few moves and blocks etc... its all just relationship building but im gonna stay 'stuff it' to that now coz on cctv it is possible it could look like something else.
what a said place this can be.
the kids miss out in the end |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| HawkesBayBoy wrote: |
Re Julius
What I wrote is exactly what happened and if you had seen earlier I had admited to playfully tapping kids every now and then, and my problem ws I couldnt remember if I had done it to this child. thats why i was concerned if cctv showed me having any phyical contact with this student it could be misinturpd as more than it was.
gez i even get my kids that learn TaeKwondo to show me a few moves and blocks etc... its all just relationship building but im gonna stay 'stuff it' to that now coz on cctv it is possible it could look like something else.
what a said place this can be.
the kids miss out in the end |
Back in the U.S or other Western countries even touching the kid's shoulder can get you fired. So why is this a sad place when it's even worse back home? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HawkesBayBoy
Joined: 08 May 2011
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
RE : TheUrbanMyth
Fired for touching shoulder.....no newspaper heading I've ever read. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HawkesBayBoy
Joined: 08 May 2011
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Terrible |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| however, if need be, they'd throw him under the bus at any time. |
Welcome to one of the less attractive parts of education and working as a teacher....anywhere. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jfromtheway
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| HawkesBayBoy wrote: |
Re Julius
What I wrote is exactly what happened and if you had seen earlier I had admited to playfully tapping kids every now and then, and my problem ws I couldnt remember if I had done it to this child. thats why i was concerned if cctv showed me having any phyical contact with this student it could be misinturpd as more than it was.
gez i even get my kids that learn TaeKwondo to show me a few moves and blocks etc... its all just relationship building but im gonna stay 'stuff it' to that now coz on cctv it is possible it could look like something else.
what a said place this can be.
the kids miss out in the end |
Back in the U.S or other Western countries even touching the kid's shoulder can get you fired. So why is this a sad place when it's even worse back home? |
Your style is so trite, the way you equate different realities with randomly occurring, situational events. This stuff happens everywhere, we all know that, but you don't understand that it is a matter of degree. I think the "sad" part was mostly the humiliation and injustice this guy was forced to endure, wrought by certain Korean people and their inability to objectively judge a situation, largely hindered by the constraints of their culture. You may never see it yourself, but that is what you take issue with, and you should stop trying to hide it. You're just nit picking with this guys' words to justify some exaggerated sense of relativism that YOU think exists in the world, and the gig is up. Let it go. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| however, if need be, they'd throw him under the bus at any time. |
Welcome to one of the less attractive parts of education and working as a teacher....anywhere. |
Yes, but again the issue isn't so much throwing one under the bus as it is the WAY it went down...in a sleazy, dishonest way where the foreigner had to repeatedly apologize for something he didn't actually do because some Koreans felt they had to save face instead of facing facts.
Comes back to culture basically because the face saving/lying taking precedence over observable facts likely wouldn't happen in most other countries to the extent it did in this case. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Mix1 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| however, if need be, they'd throw him under the bus at any time. |
Welcome to one of the less attractive parts of education and working as a teacher....anywhere. |
Yes, but again the issue isn't so much throwing one under the bus as it is the WAY it went down...in a sleazy, dishonest way where the foreigner had to repeatedly apologize for something he didn't actually do because some Koreans felt they had to save face instead of facing facts.
Comes back to culture basically because the face saving/lying taking precedence over observable facts likely wouldn't happen in most other countries to the extent it did in this case. |
Throwing someone under the bus is almost always sleazy and dishonest. If someone actually deserved it, we wouldn't call it throwing them under the bus. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jfromtheway wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| HawkesBayBoy wrote: |
Re Julius
What I wrote is exactly what happened and if you had seen earlier I had admited to playfully tapping kids every now and then, and my problem ws I couldnt remember if I had done it to this child. thats why i was concerned if cctv showed me having any phyical contact with this student it could be misinturpd as more than it was.
gez i even get my kids that learn TaeKwondo to show me a few moves and blocks etc... its all just relationship building but im gonna stay 'stuff it' to that now coz on cctv it is possible it could look like something else.
what a said place this can be.
the kids miss out in the end |
Back in the U.S or other Western countries even touching the kid's shoulder can get you fired. So why is this a sad place when it's even worse back home? |
... I think the "sad" part was mostly the humiliation and injustice this guy was forced to endure, wrought by certain Korean people and their inability to objectively judge a situation, largely hindered by the constraints of their culture. .. |
See, now if he'd said THAT...that's justifiable. Only it wasn't what he said.
He said "what a [sad] place this can be."
"Humiliation and injustice" is not a place. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Mix1 wrote: |
Either way, I think most who have worked here would agree that the way things played out in that meeting room was very...Korean. |
Spoken like someone whose first and only job was teaching English in Korea. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joe Boxer
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Location: Bundang, South Korea
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| HawkesBayBoy wrote: |
Re Julius
What I wrote is exactly what happened and if you had seen earlier I had admited to playfully tapping kids every now and then, and my problem ws I couldnt remember if I had done it to this child. thats why i was concerned if cctv showed me having any phyical contact with this student it could be misinturpd as more than it was.
gez i even get my kids that learn TaeKwondo to show me a few moves and blocks etc... its all just relationship building but im gonna stay 'stuff it' to that now coz on cctv it is possible it could look like something else.
what a said place this can be.
the kids miss out in the end |
Back in the U.S or other Western countries even touching the kid's shoulder can get you fired. So why is this a sad place when it's even worse back home? |
Let's say that I accept your conclusion that it's worse back home. That doesn't mean that Korea can't be a sad place, from time-to-time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mix1 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| however, if need be, they'd throw him under the bus at any time. |
Welcome to one of the less attractive parts of education and working as a teacher....anywhere. |
Yes, but again the issue isn't so much throwing one under the bus as it is the WAY it went down...in a sleazy, dishonest way where the foreigner had to repeatedly apologize for something he didn't actually do because some Koreans felt they had to save face instead of facing facts.
Comes back to culture basically because the face saving/lying taking precedence over observable facts likely wouldn't happen in most other countries to the extent it did in this case. |
Seriously have you ever worked in a school back home? Have you ever been tossed into similar situation with a student and his or her parents? Heck the ONLY difference for me was the union who protected its member teachers. At the Public School I worked for in Ontario, admin routinely threw teachers under the bus when students complained. They typically made teachers apologize to the parent and student. This is all for one simple reason: to avoid controversy and in the case of the public school a legal complaint.
As for Korea, you are right saving face plays a role and in this case it was applied. This however is not bad in itself, it just is the way they (Koreans) do things and afterall, this did take place in Korea.
The school HAD to appease the parent and give the parent a face savoing out when the CCTV footage defused the situation. The mutual apologies did this. Should the school have explained what was happening to the FT better and earlier? That would have been nice indeed. Why didn't they? Well now there can be many reasons for this and the answer is not necessarily that they were sleazy.
At the end of the day the FT suffered no lasting consequences beyond an unpleasant meeting and I can honestly say that he and every teacher or professional out there should get ready to experience these things many times throughout their respective careers! You just have to learn to roll with it if you wish to remain sane.
You deal with a real HR department a few times in your life and this little apology episode will pale in comparison! We just had a round of cuts in our public sector department and HR managed this, you want sleazy and underhanded? Deal with HR.
All of this does not change the fact that the OP had to go through an unpleasant meeting ajd that this must have been frustrating. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| madoka wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
Either way, I think most who have worked here would agree that the way things played out in that meeting room was very...Korean. |
Spoken like someone whose first and only job was teaching English in Korea. |
Nope.
You don't know me at all.
But nice attempt at an insult.
And for no reason I might add.
Have a good one, buddy!
Oh, and I stand by that statement. Care to try to refute it?
Or are you going to stick to keeping it personal? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| however, if need be, they'd throw him under the bus at any time. |
Welcome to one of the less attractive parts of education and working as a teacher....anywhere. |
Yes, but again the issue isn't so much throwing one under the bus as it is the WAY it went down...in a sleazy, dishonest way where the foreigner had to repeatedly apologize for something he didn't actually do because some Koreans felt they had to save face instead of facing facts.
Comes back to culture basically because the face saving/lying taking precedence over observable facts likely wouldn't happen in most other countries to the extent it did in this case. |
...
All of this does not change the fact that the OP had to go through an unpleasant meeting ajd that this must have been frustrating. |
On that much we agree. As for the rest, I stand by what I've already said. I know saving face has a function, as I see it almost every day and understand the concept. I don't like every aspect of it and will criticize it as I see fit. I never said it WASN'T sleazy in other places regarding throwing employees under the bus, so you can step off your soapbox. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
