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Why Democrats fight tooth-and-nail to stop ID's from being
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northway

Joined: 05 Jul 2010

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:43 am Post subject:

ontheway wrote:

northway wrote:

Swampfox10mm wrote:

Those of you arguing that it's just a tiny problem need to realize that just a few hundred votes in the right areas of a swing state can mean the difference between a presidential candidate getting the entire state's electoral votes. In the case of Florida, for example this CAN make a difference in the outcome of a national election, as happened in 2000.

Here's another gem for you... back in 2000, the Democrats tried to get the overseas military absentee votes thrown-out, because they knew they would trend towards Bush.

Nice. Here's how the ultra-liberal NY Times tried to make it sound a little less awful.

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/21/us/counting-vote-absentee-ballots-review-military-votes-florida-attorney-general.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Both sides try to disenfranchise as many of the other side's voters as possible. That doesn't legitimize the practice.

While a few hundred votes can certainly make a difference,

I'd requirements could potentially disenfranchise thousands of voters who lack the savvy or means to garner a government issued ID.

Anyone who lacks the savvy to get a government voting ID shouldn't be allowed to vote anyway.

And since it's so easy and there are groups willing to help (if you have the savvy) the means is not a problem either, which gets us back to the fact that these people are just too dumb or lazy or both to get an ID and probably shouldn't be voting at all.

And herein lies the most basic difference between the Republican and Democratic positions: one side thinks a means test is acceptable, the other does not. You're stepping foot on a slippery slope once you say anyone shouldn't be allowed to vote.

ontheway

Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:52 am Post subject:

northway wrote:

ontheway wrote:

northway wrote:

Swampfox10mm wrote:

Which is why, in the end, there should be as few limitations as possible on who can vote, even though these people are obviously too dumb to be allowed to vote, we should allow them to vote.

We need a system, administratively, to determine that the individual is who he or she claims to be, (isn't voting for a dead voter) votes only once, and votes freely without influence, while not impinging on the right to vote - not easy.

However, the Democrats and Republicans engaged in the massive voter fraud that goes on in the US should face lengthy terms in prison with long minimum sentences.

sirius black

Joined: 04 Jun 2010

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:39 pm Post subject:

luckylady wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Leon wrote:

Swampfox10mm wrote:

You still haven't answered why Democrats would be against voter ID if free ID's have been proposed?

Because it would drive down voter turnout for demographics that traditionally support them, which is also why the Republicans are for it.

I'm not strongly against it, but it seems to be a waste of money and time that could be much better spent else where. Again, unless it is able to be proven that voter fraud is a wide spread problem, this is all about politics and trying to get certain people to stay home.

If it WERE only a tiny problem....then the Republicans wouldn't really care. But they seem to think voter fraud is wide spread enough to deny them an election. Plus if you are a legal citizen and want to vote then there is no reason not to get a FREE voter ID.

are you kidding?? for real?? there has been no - I repeat NO study whatsoever that has proven there is any kind of legitimate concern that warrants the use of a voter ID.

+10 Points to Gryffindor's luckylady and -10 points to Slytherin's swampfox.

I'm no big fan of the Democratic party. I have a laundry list of issues. I'm an independent officially. However, the Republicans do use voter fraud as a campaign wedge issue when there is no issue at all with widespread corruption.

Swampfox of course doesn't say how Republicans introduce computers in states such as Florida and other places that supposedly looks for felons who are legally unable to vote and it ends up eliminating numerous voters who share the same or similar name. My guess is this disenfranchises far more voters than any real voter fraud from lack of IDs.

Finally, aren't voter rules local? This includes the machines used to vote, etc. I've always had to show an ID.

Swampfox10mm

Joined: 24 Mar 2011

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:44 pm Post subject:

I do not understand. Are you saying criminals are Democrats? Or that those not legally allowed to vote should vote? Enforcing a law making it illegal to vote if you ate a felon would be the fault of Republicans?

comm

Joined: 22 Jun 2010

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:20 am Post subject:

sirius black wrote:

Swampfox of course doesn't say how Republicans introduce computers in states such as Florida and other places that supposedly looks for felons who are legally unable to vote and it ends up eliminating numerous voters who share the same or similar name. My guess is this disenfranchises far more voters than any real voter fraud from lack of IDs.

Couldn't we eliminate this issue with an I.D. requirement at the polls?

Swampfox10mm

Joined: 24 Mar 2011

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:59 am Post subject:

Here's a very good read for you: http://patriotupdate.com/articles/what-is-scytl-why-should-you-be-very-very-concerned WHAT is Scytl & WHY Should You Be VERY, VERY Concerned?

Nowhere Man

Joined: 08 Feb 2004

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:43 am Post subject:

Michael Savage! Oooh yay! Get that Novak dude and we have the whole Addams family of cro-mags from last election season. But reallly reallly really swampfox-confederate-referencing dude, do you have a memory capacity that extends back to the last two elections? Didn't the evil conservative Diebold make the voting machines, and weren't they to blame for not providing a prope, traceable record of votes? Why not just be concerned with a fair election instead of stepping over to the dark side? A fair election, as far as I can see, is a bipartisan issue. Slop back your froth and frame it that way. Or just fling poo. Your choice.

sirius black

Joined: 04 Jun 2010

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:38 pm Post subject:

Swampfox10mm wrote:

I do not understand. Are you saying criminals are Democrats?

Or that those not legally allowed to vote should vote? Enforcing a law making it illegal to vote if you ate a felon would be the fault of Republicans?

What I'm saying is that Republicans are spending (wasting) money on an issue that was never found to be a problem in the first place. There has been no study that says that felons attempting to vote is an issue of any discernible problem.

So, not only are Republicans wasting money on a non issue, the net result is that the result of all this is that LEGIITIMATE voters are denied their constitutional right to vote.

eat_yeot

Joined: 11 Dec 2009

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:56 am Post subject:

comm wrote:

Couldn't we eliminate this issue with an I.D. requirement at the polls?

Making people have an ID to vote - ok?

Making people produce an ID to validate immigration status - ok?

Requiring everyone in America to have and carry government ID at all times - ok?

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:23 am Post subject:

sirius black wrote:

[What I'm saying is that Republicans are spending (wasting) money on an issue that was never found to be a problem in the first place. There has been no study that says that felons attempting to vote is an issue of any discernible problem.

So, not only are Republicans wasting money on a non issue, the net result is that the result of all this is that LEGIITIMATE voters are denied their constitutional right to vote.

So unless there is a study on something it's not a problem?

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/08/DC-Polling-Place-Holder-Ballot

Quote:

The video shows a young man entering a Washington, DC polling place at 3401 Nebraska Avenue, NW, on primary day of this year--April 3, 2012--and giving Holder�s name and address. The poll worker promptly offers the young man Holder�s ballot to vote.

The young man then suggests that he should show his ID; the poll worker, in compliance with DC law, states: �You don�t need it. It�s all right. As long as you�re in here, you�re on our list, and that�s who you say you are, you�re okay.�

Leon

Joined: 31 May 2010

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:52 am Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

sirius black wrote:

So unless there is a study on something it's not a problem?

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/08/DC-Polling-Place-Holder-Ballot

Quote:

There have been studies, and they all prove that there isn't a problem. I've posted sources that include Harvard and New York University law journals, you post a known liar and fraud for a source. You must have missed this bit from the first page.

Leon wrote:

I wouldn't trust anything that O'Keefe says, as he is a known liar and fraud.

His ACORN Video

""So let's just recap for a moment the ACORN scenario. You lie to get into � the offices. You lie, subsequently, about the lie you told to get into the offices. You edit the pimp shot into the trailer to create the illusion that you were somehow wearing it during your sting. You go on television wearing the same pimp outfit and let interviewers observe, uncorrected, that that�s what you were wearing when you confronted the ACORN employees. If your journalistic technique is the lie, why should we believe anything you have to say?"

"The AG's Report was released on April 1, 2010: it found the videos from ACORN offices in Los Angeles, San Diego, and San Bernardino to have been "severely edited"; it found there was no evidence of criminal conduct on the part of ACORN employees, nor of any evidence that any employee intended to aid or abet criminal conduct. It found that three employees had tried to deflect the couple's plans, told them ACORN could not offer them help on the grounds they wanted, and otherwise dealt with them appropriately. Such context was not reflected in O'Keefe's edited tapes. The AG's Report noted that, because the Giles-O'Keefe criminal plans were a ruse, the ACORN workers could not be complicit in them. It found no evidence of intent by the employees to aid the couple"

NPR Video
"Comparison of the raw video with the released one revealed editing that was characterized as "selective" and "deceptive" by Michael Gerson, opinion writer in the Washington Post, who wrote, "O�Keefe did not merely leave a false impression; he manufactured an elaborate, alluring lie."[54] Time magazine noted that the video "transposed remarks from a different part of the meeting", was "manipulative" and "a partisan hit-job"

Not to mention that in many cases his methods are criminal

"O'Keefe and colleagues were arrested in New Orleans in January 2010 during an attempt to make recordings at the office of United States Senator Mary Landrieu, a Democrat. His three fellow activists, who were dressed as telephone repairmen when apprehended, included Robert Flanagan, the son of William Flanagan, acting U.S. Attorney of the Eastern District of Louisiana.[18][19] The four men were charged with malicious intent to damage the phone system.[20] O'Keefe said he entered Landrieu's office to investigate complaints that she was ignoring phone calls from constituents during the debate over President Barack Obama's health care bill.[21] The charges in the case were reduced from a felony to a single misdemeanor count of entering a federal building under false pretenses.[22][23] O'Keefe and the others pleaded guilty on May 26. O'Keefe was sentenced to three years' probation, 100 hours of community service and a $1,500 fine. The other three men received lesser sentences."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_O'Keefe#Praise_and_criticism

Not saying that there isn't room to debate the voter ID laws, but using James O'Keef is not the way to do it. If you thought CNN was bad for selectively editing the 911 call, than this is much worse stuff.

comm

Joined: 22 Jun 2010

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:13 am Post subject:

eat_yeot wrote:

Making people have an ID to vote - ok?

Making people produce an ID to validate immigration status - ok?

Requiring everyone in America to have and carry government ID at all times - ok?

When you voluntarily interact with the government, you may be asked to produce I.D. I don't think you can consider this to be a massive attack on civil rights.

eat_yeot

Joined: 11 Dec 2009

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:27 am Post subject:

comm wrote:

eat_yeot wrote:

Making people have an ID to vote - ok?

Making people produce an ID to validate immigration status - ok?

Requiring everyone in America to have and carry government ID at all times - ok?

When you voluntarily interact with the government, you may be asked to produce I.D. I don't think you can consider this to be a massive attack on civil rights.

Voting is voluntary? I always thought it was a right. So is walking down the government funded sidewalks a "voluntary [interaction] with the government"? Requiring everyone to carry and produce ID on demand wouldn't bother you?

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:44 am Post subject:

ontheway wrote:

And since it's so easy and there are groups willing to help (if you have the savvy) the means is not a problem either, which gets us back to the fact that these people are just too dumb or lazy or both to get an ID and probably shouldn't be voting at all.

Walk us through what organizations can help provide an indigent an ID, and how easy it is.

comm

Joined: 22 Jun 2010

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:49 am Post subject:

eat_yeot wrote:

Voting is voluntary? I always thought it was a right.

I think you've mixed up the words "voluntary" and "privilege" here... When you choose to interact with the government (to file a police report, to transfer a car title, to get a library card, etc) you usually provide I.D. Voting should be no different.

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