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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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 Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| I established that it was simple assault, which includes among other things, punching and slapping someone. |
So now you're equating smoking with punching someone?
If you think those two are on the same level...then you really have a long way to go.
But lets see some evidence for your claim. Public smokers getting long jail sentences for "assault". Link? |
hmm...let me take a shot at this one.
Perhaps an intermediary between the two of you might give you some perspective Julius.
SR did not 'equate smoking with punching someone"
He stated 'blowing smoke in someone's face was "simple assault" which includes...(among other things) punching and slapping someone.
(among other things) - this would include spitting on someone.
From Flakfizer's post we have
"Intentionally spitting on another person is an offensive touching that rises to the level of simple assault," the three-judge panel wrote.
So the 'simple assault' covers quite a few things.
The point being...blowing smoke in someone's face is offensive to the point of 'simple assault'...not the same as punching someone...but in the same category.
Anyway...just sayin.  |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:03 am Post subject: |
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How much time do you get for lighting up these days? 6 months or a year?
"Smoker charged with assault". 
Link please. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| I established that it was simple assault, which includes among other things, punching and slapping someone. |
So now you're equating smoking with punching someone?
If you think those two are on the same level...then you really have a long way to go.
But lets see some evidence for your claim. Public smokers getting long jail sentences for "assault". Link? |
No one said anything about long jail sentences.
Simply that blowing smoke in someone's face constituted 'simple assault', and again the legal office link states this.
http://www.shepherdandosborne.net/simple_assault.html
And again, take blowing smoke by itself and odds are the cops won't care. Blow smoke or cease to smoke in an obvious non-smoking zone and then get in a tussle over it and the cops will look at your smoking as to what set it off and treat it as the assault that led to everything.
And Julius, aren't the cops rubber stamps of the ajosshis? Why then did all they do was just escort her off? Apparently she isn't in jail or anything. Where are the criminal charges? Where are the lawsuits? If she did what she did in the US she'd probably be facing assault, public nuisance, drunken disorderly, trespass, and vandalism charges amounting to up to 1 year in jail or probation, thousands of dollars in fines, court ordered alcohol classes, court ordered sobriety, and some sort of mental health screening. Yes the ajosshi might face charges as well, we know that.
In other news...if my deciphering of google translate is correct...it appears the lady is getting a TV special...
http://www.etoday.co.kr/news/section/newsview.php?TM=news&SM=4102&idxno=564871
And photos indicate at least two more incidents of her smoking on public transportation...
That makes something like 6 times she has done this, at least.
And Julius, if she's such a feminist icon, where are the women of Dave's vigorously defending her actions and holding her up as a symbol in the struggle for equality? |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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I can't believe that anyone is suggesting the man's actions were warranted. Any sane person would realize that this woman is not right mentally and would simply move away from her. The subway car wasn't crowded. There was plenty of room for people to move about. They were not trapped in a smokey chamber. Julius is being a bit dramatic and using too much hyperbole, but he's got a point. I've seen so many drunk ajushis in public places including the subway, who were way more of a nuisance than this woman and I've never seen anyone do this sort of thing to them. When a drunk man is loud and obnoxious, looking for trouble, puking on the subway floor (which stinks way worse than some smoke and is left behind for the public to enjoy for much longer) people simply move away or perhaps someone will try to mollify him.
He saw a chance to beat up a woman and jumped at it. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Flak, you've never seen men confronted on the subway for bad behavior?
I know I have. |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
Flak, you've never seen men confronted on the subway for bad behavior?
I know I have. |
Confronted, as in loud arguing? Yes. Beat up? No. The worst I've seen in other public venues is men taking the perpetrator by the arm and trying to escort him away. I've only seen one incident as violent as the one in the video during my time here and that was a man assaulting his girlfriend/wife. Admittedly, I'm never around night clubs and use the subway typically in the daytime. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Well, experience is funny like that. You never see something...until you do.
Wasn't there a video of an older woman confronting (physically) a younger woman for not offering her seat? Or what about that news story a few months back when an older chap brawled with a younger one because of how he was improperly sitting.
I can't say that I see physical confrontations every day or anything, but I've been lucky enough (lol) to see all sorts of them in my 10+ years here. And I can say with confidence that men are confronted on subways as well - maybe not every time, but it does happen.
Anyone who is claiming absolutes on this thread, is talking out of their arse. |
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Maserial
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: The Web
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Or what about that news story a few months back when an older chap brawled with a younger one because of how he was improperly sitting. |
Please tell me you have a link for this story. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Maserial wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Or what about that news story a few months back when an older chap brawled with a younger one because of how he was improperly sitting. |
Please tell me you have a link for this story. |
I think this is the story about the foreigner who was sitting cross legged and the sole of his shoe was pointing to the guy...some kind of cultural slight?
No link, but I think that is the one CC is referring to...yes? |
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Savant
Joined: 25 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Maserial wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Or what about that news story a few months back when an older chap brawled with a younger one because of how he was improperly sitting. |
Please tell me you have a link for this story. |
I think this is the story about the foreigner who was sitting cross legged and the sole of his shoe was pointing to the guy...some kind of cultural slight?
No link, but I think that is the one CC is referring to...yes? |
I thought the younger guy was Korean too? They were sitting next to each other and the young guy's sole touched the older Korean guy and I think the older guy started ranting about the younger guy's dirty shoe and then he went onto how the young generation have no respect now for older people. I can't recall much of the situation but am sure they were both Korean. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| ^^^ yup, that's the story. The older guy decided to school the younger one on how to sit... and if memory serves, they came to blows. |
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Maserial
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: The Web
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| You know how you sometimes get pumped for a movie after viewing the theatrical trailer, only to be disappointed by the film's mediocrity upon release? That's how I feel right now, guys. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Simply that blowing smoke in someone's face constituted 'simple assault' |
For the 100th time, she did not "blow smoke into someones face".
How many dishonest debating tactics do you have up your sleeve exactly?
You've already done strawman, exagerate and false criteria to death.
yes she was smoking but she wasn't going up to people and blowing smoke into their faces. So why even debate this point?
| Quote: |
Blow smoke or cease to smoke in an obvious non-smoking zone and then get in a tussle over it and the cops will look at your smoking as to what set it off and treat it as the assault that led to everything. |
Are you talking about america again? Sorry this is korea we're talking about. I highly doubt that smoking results in a jail sentence here either.
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| Apparently she isn't in jail or anything. |
Of course not. Because smoking is not a serious offence.
| Quote: |
| If she did what she did in the US she'd probably be facing assault, public nuisance, drunken disorderly, trespass, and vandalism charges amounting to up to 1 year in jail or probation |
one year in jail for smoking? I don't think so. Show me the link..
| Quote: |
| Yes the ajosshi might face charges as well |
Might?
For smashing a womans head into a pole with all the energy he could muster?
You see this is where you seem to have lost track of reality.
Violent physical assault, by a man on a woman, causing grievous bodily harm is a serious offence in western countries.
Yet all you can do is focus on the minor infraction of someone smoking. And then say that she deserved to be beaten up. Your attitudes belong to the stone age.
And yet we have video evidence of Korean men doing the same. But they get tolerated, People rush to make excuses for them. "oh..he's just an old man" or "oh..he was drunk" etc.
Do you see the hypocrisy? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| For the 100th time, she did not "blow smoke into someones face". |
No, although at one point she was waving her cigarette precipitously close to someone.
On the other hand, a court might consider smoking in a clearly non-smoking area like a subway, doing so habitually, refusing to stop when asked, and then cursing and insulting the person who did so, to be the equivalent of blowing smoke in someone's face. Court's do tend to extrapolate things and that doesn't seem unreasonable.
| Quote: |
| Are you talking about america again? Sorry this is korea we're talking about. I highly doubt that smoking results in a jail sentence here either. |
And according to you, neither do fights, really. So why bother with the outrage. We're in Korea, not America. Those laws and norms should have no bearing.
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| Of course not. Because smoking is not a serious offence. |
Serious enough to merit fines in the thousands of dollars.
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| one year in jail for smoking? I don't think so. |
One year for smoking+assault+public nuisance+damaging public property+ trespass+drunken disorderly.
And I also said up to 1 year or probation.
You really aren't good at terms like "possible" "or" "up to" "likely" "never". You do realize those can make all the difference in the world, right?
| Quote: |
Might?
For smashing a womans head into a pole with all the energy he could muster? |
She did initiate the fight by throwing something at him. She also tried to use her shoe as a weapon, and she continued the fight while the guy was appearing to return to his seat.
Yeah, he might not face charges.
Dude, starting the fight by throwing something+using a weapon+ continuing the fight would not look good for her and I'm guessing could be spun by a good defense attorney for the ajosshi.
| Quote: |
| Violent physical assault, by a man on a woman, causing grievous bodily harm is a serious offence in western countries. |
May I remind you of your previous statement-
| Quote: |
| Are you talking about america again? Sorry this is korea we're talking about. |
But I'll humor you.
She didn't suffer grievous bodily harm.
Using a weapon in a fight is a serious offense.
| Quote: |
| Yet all you can do is focus on the minor infraction of someone smoking. And then say that she deserved to be beaten up. |
Your the one who can't look past gender and see that A) she is not some feminist icon, but rather a rude smoker. And B) The facts of the case which dictate she initiated the fight. That she continued the fight. That she was the one who attempted to use a weapon.
| Quote: |
| And yet we have video evidence of Korean men doing the same. But they get tolerated, |
We have two videos of that. We have one video of the smoking lady not getting beaten up. Hardly conclusive to your claim. In fact there's another picture of a different girl smoking on the subway and apparently there was no report of an incident. So that would be 2 and 2.
Also I believe in none of the videos no one asks the ajosshi to stop. IN all three fights involving the lady it would appear someone asks her to stop smoking and she refuses and insults the person.
That would suggest that the most significant factor in violence is not gender, but refusing to stop and swearing at and insulting the person who asks you to stop.
| Quote: |
| People rush to make excuses for them. "oh..he's just an old man" or "oh..he was drunk" |
Maybe if the lady had said "I've had a crappy day and all I want is a cigarette and a beer on my way home" it might have ended there. But she swore at, and insulted the person asking her to cease her rude, selfish, and illegal activity.
I don't make any excuses for them. Knock the cig out with an umbrella on them too. If they throw something, that will lead to a fight and if they try to take off their shoe and keep on fighting someone who is returning to their seat and they get slammed, fine by me.
Again Julius, if the genders were reversed, would you have the same conclusion? |
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