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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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 Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:24 am Post subject: Re: What makes a perfect hagwon? |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| soomin wrote: |
I'm in my third hagwon and while there isn't anything horrible going on, it's not really fulfilling and I've been made into a party teacher who has to make food and crafts every class and teach mainly in Korean... Again, I've had way worse, but I was wondering... what do you all consider things to look for in a fulfilling and (in your opinion) perfect hagwon?
For me, I am looking for:
intermediate-high level English (currently no)
textbooks/ curriculum (currently no)
competent authority (currently no)
good pay (currently so-so)
health insurance (currently no)
pension (currently maybe? never got it at my other hagwons)
good housing (currently yes) |
Many of my kids are solid intermediate.
We have an okay curriculum, but I'm allowed to choose some of the books for the higher-level/older kids.
No real authority. I'm not allowed to write if a kid is rude in their monthly reports. I can send them out of the class to the owner's classroom, though.
Pay is okay. I get paid on time and in full.
I get national health.
My boss doesn't match my pension contributions, but mine go in as long as I remind her every other month or so.
I take the housing stipend and rent my own, so I love my apartment, as I went to many until choosing that one.
With the exception of the not matching pension (it's supposed to be matched) I really love my school. My boss is flexible, is letting me take my home leave in the summer instead of the 2 weeks before the end of my contract, as she knows that I have my TESOL course until the end of June, and is letting me take all 10 days of regular vacation in a 2-week stint in the winter for the holidays. This has all been verified via email.
Considering that the work environment is really friendly, I can live with the pension issue. At least my contributions are actually going in. I check at the pension office every other month. Also, I get medical. I told her that this was a must, as I'd had my appendix out in 2011, and without medical I'd have been in a lot of trouble.
Is it the perfect hagwon? I give it a 9 out of 10. |
Hello NYC Gal,
What you wrote above is curious and perhaps something to watch out for.
If your boss has signed you up for National Pension, is getting the bills and remitting payments, the Pension Office will require the full amounts to be paid according to what is due on your salary.
Pension is approximately 9% (can be a bit more or less since it's done by brackets). The employee and employer are each required to pay half. The Pension office expects payments of the full amount they have billed - no more, no less. So, I wonder if your boss is making payments late and there will be a big balance due at the end?
More likely, your boss registered you at half of your actual monthly salary. So, 9% of half of your salary would mean that your 4.5% is paying the full amount.
Now, since Pension and Health Insurance are linked, and if your boss was already this clever, then why not list your salary at the health office as only half of your actual salary too. Then you can pay about 3% for your share of the health insurance but actually be making the full payment and your boss pays none.
Which gets us to the income tax. How much are you paying? I wonder if you were reported at half salary for that too. Your boss could be deducting at the NTS rate, or worse, at 3.3%, but actually remit only the amount due on half of your salary - maybe zero at that low level - and pocket all of your tax withholding.
Sorry to worry you with this, but my auditor alarm is going off in my head based on what you wrote. I'd be asking a lot of very specific questions, first at the various offices involved. If you're happy and don't want to rock the boat on these things I understand - happiness is worth more than a little money. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
These are all good points!
However, the reality is that you cannot control everything like that, especially in a business depending on direct clients like a Hakwon.
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Yes, you can. I've met some who have done just that.
OK, perhaps not many, a few then. The point being, it is possible if you play your cards right.
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The example of parents is a good one. You may well tell them whatever you want initially. This will not stop some of them from complaining. Some of these complaints will be unfounded but you, as a business owner, will have to respond and you cannot limit yourself to: I told you I would not run my school based on your whims.
Why?
You need to be more diplomatic because one disgruntled parent can talk to other parents and tarnish your school's reputation. This can lead to all sorts of headaches for your business. If they do take their kid to XYZ hakwon down the street it hurts your school and your wallet....and your school is your life income. It is not so simple.
*** hmmm**
No one said you had to be rude about it. Just be firm. It can be as simple as just telling everyone you are already too busy on Fridays and you can't book any more on Fridays. They don't have to know everything.
If the students you have are learning, better, faster
with less time spent in the classroom, that will get around too.
*************************
It can be great being your own boss, I sure enjoy that part of my professional life, but it is no a guarantee of happiness either! It comes with a lot of pressure and stress.
The people I know who run their businesses, either consulting agencies like mine or in some cases Hakwons, work more than 4 days a week. The few that work fewer days have hired people or have been in business for a few years. |
******
Well, to each his/her own. I've met some that work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week and were happy with that too, so it's up to each person to decide.
But as I said above, I've met people doing 4 days a week and running their own show. They enjoyed taking long motorcyle trips on the weekends and hence the need for a lot of 3-day weekends. I suppose there were times when they could have compromised on that, but for the most part, they had no shortage of students.
They taught small classes 2-4 students and charged more because of it.
They didn't need big numbers.
Bigger is not always better.
Parents were happy because their students were the top ones in the area.
(and I can personally attest to that fact).
They taught across the street from the PS I worked at, and their students were way above anyone else.
It was in a smaller center though, so that may have something to do with it.
PS: man I hate the quote function on this forum. It mixes me up worse than I already am... and that's scary.  |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree with you that trying to grow your business too fast can lead to more headaches than its worth. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: What makes a perfect hagwon? |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| soomin wrote: |
I'm in my third hagwon and while there isn't anything horrible going on, it's not really fulfilling and I've been made into a party teacher who has to make food and crafts every class and teach mainly in Korean... Again, I've had way worse, but I was wondering... what do you all consider things to look for in a fulfilling and (in your opinion) perfect hagwon?
For me, I am looking for:
intermediate-high level English (currently no)
textbooks/ curriculum (currently no)
competent authority (currently no)
good pay (currently so-so)
health insurance (currently no)
pension (currently maybe? never got it at my other hagwons)
good housing (currently yes) |
Many of my kids are solid intermediate.
We have an okay curriculum, but I'm allowed to choose some of the books for the higher-level/older kids.
No real authority. I'm not allowed to write if a kid is rude in their monthly reports. I can send them out of the class to the owner's classroom, though.
Pay is okay. I get paid on time and in full.
I get national health.
My boss doesn't match my pension contributions, but mine go in as long as I remind her every other month or so.
I take the housing stipend and rent my own, so I love my apartment, as I went to many until choosing that one.
With the exception of the not matching pension (it's supposed to be matched) I really love my school. My boss is flexible, is letting me take my home leave in the summer instead of the 2 weeks before the end of my contract, as she knows that I have my TESOL course until the end of June, and is letting me take all 10 days of regular vacation in a 2-week stint in the winter for the holidays. This has all been verified via email.
Considering that the work environment is really friendly, I can live with the pension issue. At least my contributions are actually going in. I check at the pension office every other month. Also, I get medical. I told her that this was a must, as I'd had my appendix out in 2011, and without medical I'd have been in a lot of trouble.
Is it the perfect hagwon? I give it a 9 out of 10. |
Hello NYC Gal,
What you wrote above is curious and perhaps something to watch out for.
If your boss has signed you up for National Pension, is getting the bills and remitting payments, the Pension Office will require the full amounts to be paid according to what is due on your salary.
Pension is approximately 9% (can be a bit more or less since it's done by brackets). The employee and employer are each required to pay half. The Pension office expects payments of the full amount they have billed - no more, no less. So, I wonder if your boss is making payments late and there will be a big balance due at the end?
More likely, your boss registered you at half of your actual monthly salary. So, 9% of half of your salary would mean that your 4.5% is paying the full amount.
Now, since Pension and Health Insurance are linked, and if your boss was already this clever, then why not list your salary at the health office as only half of your actual salary too. Then you can pay about 3% for your share of the health insurance but actually be making the full payment and your boss pays none.
Which gets us to the income tax. How much are you paying? I wonder if you were reported at half salary for that too. Your boss could be deducting at the NTS rate, or worse, at 3.3%, but actually remit only the amount due on half of your salary - maybe zero at that low level - and pocket all of your tax withholding.
Sorry to worry you with this, but my auditor alarm is going off in my head based on what you wrote. I'd be asking a lot of very specific questions, first at the various offices involved. If you're happy and don't want to rock the boat on these things I understand - happiness is worth more than a little money. |
She is registering me as making less than I do, but I save money as well. When she gave me my first pay stub and I asked why the deductions were lower, she said she'd save money, because the fees were pretty high. I'm the first employee who really wanted national health and pension (I spoke with former workers, and they wanted the extra cash. They didn't have pension refund deals, as I do, and were young and foolish about healthcare.) I did the math, and I save money, so I don't really mind. I also work fewer hours than on my contract, and she's really flexible with vacations and the rare occasion when I need to see a doctor. I'm not going to fight over something so trivial. I have money saved for a rainy day, though, in case there's a problem when I leave.
Sure, I'd like her to match it properly, but it's not a deal breaker. I had pension and national health paid at the regular rate when I at public school, but I'm much happier now, even with this little hitch. I have money saved up, so, in the event of trouble at the end, I could pay it off. I'd get it right back, anyway. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| I can see what NYCGal is saying and I completely get it. When you have a great job and ONE irregularity pops up do you then ruin this job because of this one element? |
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soomin
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| Times30 wrote: |
I feel like a really good Hagwon would basically look out the interests of EVERYBODY. Teachers, students, staff, and even parents.
The problem with most hagwons is that they overlook SOMEONE. Some hagwons abuse the hell out of their teachers and staff. Long hours, low benefits, etc.
Some Hagwons cater to parents and what parents think "education" is, but overlook the real meaningful curriculum that kids need.
And then there are some that cater completely to the kids, giving them candy and crafts while omitting discipline and real education. |
This is my current situation... I've always wanted to teach real English, but get stuck making origami and snacks while kids run around acting crazy... in the end, it's all about the Benjamins... |
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BigBuds
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Location: Changwon
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| BigBuds wrote: |
| Owning it yourself. |
But then you would have to deal with whiny teachers....
That does not sound perfect to me!  |
It is when you only have your family working for you so we don't get any whining really.
Plus we take care of them. My sister in law is about to have a baby and we've given her 6 months paid maternity leave which is unheard of in Korea. Definitely no whining from her, lol. |
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Snowkr
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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1.) Students stay (or parents keep them enrolled for years rather than shop around)
2.) Teachers stay (my coworker stayed at our hogwan for years as well)
3.) Reasonable hours (we worked 10 - 5) Sometimes I finished at 4. We had a nice 45 minute break as well.
4.) Free food (the cook was very good and lunch was always provided for students and staff)
5.) Director who gets behind teachers, not students. While I worked there I saw numerous students kicked out for disrespecting the teacher or other classmates.
6.) Director who teaches the students himself. My boss taught students after hours and also stepped in any time one of us became sick. Calls would just go to his voicemail.
7.) Kids actually speak English. There was a "no Korean" policy from the time students entered to when they left. (It was strongly enforced) I couldn't believe it, but it worked. And the children became bilingual after just a year and half in the program.
8.) Structured schedule. Classes were split by level and also by skill focus. Language aims were clear. Students were rewarded for meeting them. The director knew quite a bit about EFL for young learners.
9.) Collaboration between teachers, supervisor and parents. Everyone supported everyone. And parents were often involved with their kids' learning. They also really respected the foreign teachers.
10.) Nice location. This hogwan was right in the heart of a business, shopping and entertainment district. There were TONS of places to go during breaks.
I could go on but I think ten should be enough. Anyone interested in learning more about this hogwan, feel free to pm me. As far as I know, they're still in business! |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:39 am Post subject: |
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And the children became bilingual after just a year and half in the program.
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The kids were bilingual after only a year and a half? That's pretty impressive. |
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soomin
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| Snowkr wrote: |
1.) Students stay (or parents keep them enrolled for years rather than shop around)
2.) Teachers stay (my coworker stayed at our hogwan for years as well)
3.) Reasonable hours (we worked 10 - 5) Sometimes I finished at 4. We had a nice 45 minute break as well.
4.) Free food (the cook was very good and lunch was always provided for students and staff)
5.) Director who gets behind teachers, not students. While I worked there I saw numerous students kicked out for disrespecting the teacher or other classmates.
6.) Director who teaches the students himself. My boss taught students after hours and also stepped in any time one of us became sick. Calls would just go to his voicemail.
7.) Kids actually speak English. There was a "no Korean" policy from the time students entered to when they left. (It was strongly enforced) I couldn't believe it, but it worked. And the children became bilingual after just a year and half in the program.
8.) Structured schedule. Classes were split by level and also by skill focus. Language aims were clear. Students were rewarded for meeting them. The director knew quite a bit about EFL for young learners.
9.) Collaboration between teachers, supervisor and parents. Everyone supported everyone. And parents were often involved with their kids' learning. They also really respected the foreign teachers.
10.) Nice location. This hogwan was right in the heart of a business, shopping and entertainment district. There were TONS of places to go during breaks.
I could go on but I think ten should be enough. Anyone interested in learning more about this hogwan, feel free to pm me. As far as I know, they're still in business! |
Wow! These are all great, but the bolded four are just... unbelievable? LOL Everywhere I've gone has been tons of Korean, and I even have to teach in Korean (as best I can), despite being the foreign teacher (and not a native Korean-speaker)
I've had a director who also taught... but his English, or, I guess his voice in general, sounded like a dog barking, so no one ever understood him and laughed at his poor English... I almost never understood what he was saying to me, or even what the emotion he wanted to express was @.@;;;
Standing behind the teachers? ... ... ...*sigh*
Why did you ever leave? ^.^ |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| BigBuds wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| BigBuds wrote: |
| Owning it yourself. |
But then you would have to deal with whiny teachers....
That does not sound perfect to me! |
It is when you only have your family working for you so we don't get any whining really.
Plus we take care of them. My sister in law is about to have a baby and we've given her 6 months paid maternity leave which is unheard of in Korea. Definitely no whining from her, lol. |
Great for you guys.  |
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