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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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Some people don't deserve to bear children. Like people who have 4 or 5 children who can't afford them. Then demand welfare. It's a fundamental right, fine, but don't ask single people who had the sense not to bear children they can't afford to subsidize you.
Think of it as.....natural selection. |
So the kid who's done nothing wrong has to suffer? I don't like the idea of paying for irresponsible people's kids any more than you do but in a civilized society child bearing has to remain a right and we have to protect innocent kids. Simple as that. |
Then don't pay it out in the form of cash welfare. I'd be in support of putting them in the foster care system (or have them adopted by someone who can afford another kid), but not direct cash welfare. Irresponsible acts should have consequences.
Besides, your fundamental rights end at my tax dollars. Education and medical care (and the healthy, educated populace that results) benefits society as a whole, but having more children the parents can afford doesn't. People shouldn't get to have tax credits because they're married, or have kids, or own a house. It's your right to do all those things, but don't ask society to pay for it. |
I think the fundamental right to conceive children trumps the right to pay less taxes. |
No it doesn't.
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The government of every nation except China says so. And China doesn't do it for tax and welfare reasons but to avoid over-population.
The right of people to enshrine that freedom through government, legislation, and law trumps your right to pay less taxes. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| You will end up unfairly punishing the kids. yes, some irresponsible parents end up abusing their kids but most just have financial problems that make it difficult for them to bring the kids up properly. In those cases the kids would be much better off with their natural parent(s) on government benefits than being put in foster care or adopted. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| fosterman wrote: |
For it!
how you think the Roman, British, spanish navy, army conquered the world?
with discipline. and it was enforced!
the British were the most ruthless with punishing their own soldiers. and look they owned a third of the world for it. their military , and navy were run very efficient.
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Very simplistic view of history. Even if you're right, not sure the goal of education should be world conquest.
There are also cases of where "less disciplined" troops beat more disciplined forces. The best fighting forces had troops who were motivated and self-disciplined, not coerced. I think that's the direction people should take with education.
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| And it's not the fault of the child that he/she was born to an irresponsible parent. Which is why irresponsible people SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED to have kids. |
I don't like welfare and I don't like how many seemingly unfit people have children. I even occasionally entertain the idea of having kid permits but you have to realize the dangers of actually implementing such a law. Can you imagine how much the powers-that-be would abuse the power to decide who can reproduce and who can't? |
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pegasus64128
Joined: 20 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| crisdean wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
There are very strong emotive arguments against corporal punishment but the fact is it works better than anything else anyone has come up with so far. Since CP was abolished in the UK discipline in schools has got much worse, teacher morale has declined and no one has come up with a satisfactory system to replace it. Exclusion is a basically a holiday. What really bad kid is going to mind that? Naughty kids these days are told they're suffering from syndromes such as 'anti school syndrome' and tax payers' money is spent on psychologists who meet with them individually to discuss their 'issues'. Every whim is catered for as they are allowed to select which lessons they feel 'comfortable' with attending. It's expensive and it doesn't work. And eventually I'm sure we will see a similar thing happening in Korea.
Unposter's attitude is also part of the problem. Not only do today's parents object to CP in schools these days but they now question any form of sanction a teacher takes against their kids and will often come into school to berate the teacher personally for it. Teachers have no power and the kids know it. That's why in the UK they act up more than they used to and are starting to do the same here. |
+1 to all this!
In the schools today (pretty much everywhere) kids face no repercussions for their actions. And all this psychological BS is maddening, I can't help but feel that a group of societally useless overeducated people (the psychologists and psychiatrists) have found a way to create a demand for their unnecessary services and drugs. Before anyone goes off on me about Autism and a bunch of other things, yes, I do realise that there are people with very real problems that can be helped to live a closer to normal life, but I still feel the majority of modern "disorders" are a load crap.
In the end I think it all comes down to the parents.
| Unposter wrote: |
| Also, you will find that the world looks very different when it is your children. I feel very comfortable disciplining my children but if someone, anyone, even a teacher, lifted a hand against my child, that would be a completely different story. |
Now I don't have children yet, but here's how I'd like to believe I'd look at: while I would be upset that a teacher struck my child and they'd better have a damned good explanation, I would be equally upset (perhaps more so depending on the explanation) with my child that he/she did something that compelled the teacher to strike them since I would consider my child to be a moral/ethical extention of myself and anything they do reflects upon me. The common problems I'm seeing both here and in the West is that parents are not taking responsibility for raising their children to have any respect for others, actually I guess you could extend that to parents are simply not acting responsibly period. Again this is not all parent, but a growing percentage. Combine this with handcuffed teachers who have absolutely no recourse to deal with problem students and what your left with is the potential for great chaos in the classroom, and who really suffers here? Answer: The good students, that seems to be forgotten all to often. |
I agree with these guys. I've seen corporal punishment dished out in Korea, and there is a clear understanding as to why the Ss' were punished. They were expecting to be punished for their wrongs and they were. They didn't whine afterwards. If the punishment is consistent, fair, and appropriately measured, then I have no problem with the method. Squats, and a single strike with a paddle or stick against the sole of the foot, is all I've witnessed in Korea, though I know there are harsher treatments applied. |
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roguefishfood
Joined: 21 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think you should strike a child.
Calisthenics, however, should be fair game. Squats, push-ups, standing with your hands over your head, whatever. Totally ok with that. It's not violent but it's unpleasant and I think it works great. |
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