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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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creeper1
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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 Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:24 pm Post subject: Posters Spreading Misinformation About Uni and International |
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Reading Dave's for as long as I have has made me form certain opinions about Uni jobs and International School jobs.
The constant negativity and "can't do" attitude dissuaded me from trying for these jobs.
According to dave's posters you can't get a uni job without an in-person, face to face interview in Korea. WRONG - I know of two people who landed uni jobs without going to Korea. They had experience of hagwons/PS but it was either no interview or a skype interview.
According to dave's posters you can't get an international school job without some kind of educational degree and realistically speaking two years of teaching in a western country. WRONG. Someone I know got an international school job without educational credentials and he just ESL experience.
It is my fault I paid attention to these posts. Wish I hadn't now. |
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Posters Spreading Misinformation About Uni and Internati |
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| According to dave's posters you can't get an international school job without some kind of educational degree and realistically speaking two years of teaching in a western country. WRONG. Someone I know got an international school job without educational credentials and he just ESL experience. |
Yeah, I also know someone who got an international school job without a teaching degree. He is teaching what he majored in unversity too at the school. He got an awesome high paid gig with great vacation. He was a handsome guy though and always wore a suit to school. |
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transmogrifier
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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You go to Daves for advice, you get what you pay for.
All I can do is tell you that without a Masters and some experience, my university wouldn't look at you twice, no matter how well you dressed.
And that's all Dave's is, a collection of individual experiences masquerading as a cohesive whole. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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All I can do is tell you that without a Masters and some experience, my university wouldn't look at you twice, no matter how well you dressed.
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He was talking about people getting uni jobs without face to face interviews wasn't he? The qualifications thing was for international schools. I know well qualified people who got uni jobs from outside the country and I know of unqualified people who work at international schools. Though remember there are many tiers of international schools and people like no-hite-plus' friend are bound to stress the positive things about their job even if it isn't really as good as others. The fact that they employ unqualified people alone would convince me it's not a first tier school, no matter what the working conditions are. Though I'm sure his kids are appreciative of the fact their teacher is good looking and wears a suit, as it no doubt makes a world of difference to the quality of his lessons.  |
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transmogrifier
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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All I can do is tell you that without a Masters and some experience, my university wouldn't look at you twice, no matter how well you dressed.
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He was talking about people getting uni jobs without face to face interviews wasn't he? The qualifications thing was for international schools. I know well qualified people who got uni jobs from outside the country and I know of unqualified people who work at international schools. Though remember there are many tiers of international schools and people like no-hite-plus' friend are bound to stress the positive things about their job even if it isn't really as good as others. The fact that they employ unqualified people alone would convince me it's not a first tier school, no matter what the working conditions are. Though I'm sure his kids are appreciative of the fact their teacher is good looking and wears a suit, as it no doubt makes a world of difference to the quality of his lessons. |
I was referring to the second poster, but my main point was that I can only state what the deal is with my university. If the OP then wants to complain that this is not necessarily true for all universities, then all I can say is "Yes, and.....?"
It's not "spreading misinformation" it is telling people what you personally have experienced. The OPs main problem is thinking that individual posters know everything in the first place. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Posters Spreading Misinformation About Uni and Internati |
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| creeper1 wrote: |
According to dave's posters you can't get an international school job without some kind of educational degree and realistically speaking two years of teaching in a western country. WRONG. Someone I know got an international school job without educational credentials and he just ESL experience.
It is my fault I paid attention to these posts. Wish I hadn't now. |
This one is pretty on the mark. The majority of international schools DO require you to have a teaching degree
http://www.footprintsrecruiting.com/types-of-jobs-in-jobs-south-korea/122-international-schools-in-korea
A few do not however.
http://certificationmap.com/international/international-schools/international-schools-in-south-korea/
The above is a sampling of international schools. Again most require certification but some like the Yongsan and Taejeon ones do not.
However it should be noted that NICS does not typically pay that well
For example at ICS-Uijongbu.
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| Our salaries are not "high". That is because we do not want money to be the reason for missionaries coming. We want ministry to be the reason. However, a modest salary that meets the need is present plus airfare, insurance, retirement, bonuses, and professional development are provided. |
So yes it is possible but not likely and if you do get a job at an international school WITHOUT teaching certification...it's going to be a bottom end/feeder job. It is most definitely NOT going to be top end. Those schools want (and can get) teachers with credentials. Why would they hire some unqualified person? They have a reputation to maintain and can afford to be picky.
And yes as already said about a institution that hires unqualified people simply isn't top of the line by virtue of that alone. Not that some unqualified people can't be great teachers but it's simply unprofessional and the chances that you get someone who doesn't know what he or she is doing are much higher. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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And as for university jobs, you're more than likely to end up at the likes of Hankuk University and be absolutely miserable. Remember, not all universities in Korea are made equal. Many uni jobs are essential hogwan jobs situated (inexplicably) on university campuses.
Pick and choose carefully. |
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tideout
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
And as for university jobs, you're more than likely to end up at the likes of Hankuk University and be absolutely miserable. Remember, not all universities in Korea are made equal. Many uni jobs are essential hogwan jobs situated (inexplicably) on university campuses.
Pick and choose carefully. |
Just curious, does Hankuk require an M.A. in anything? |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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^ It asks for one, but the conditions are so terrible at that school that only a fool with an MA would accept a job there. A hogwan is a better job. When I worked there all the teachers had simple BA's and the consensus was, "Christ, I can do better than this place." In other words, you'll be working (technically) at a university, but the ethos, management, and conditions are similar to those of a hogwan. If you haven't been fired before the half way mark of your contract, you're actively searching the job adds on Daves for another job. So, again, I advise job applicants to do their research. There are some great university jobs out there. And there are some unigwon hell holes. Do your research, choose carefully and enjoy the life and benefits of a real university job in Korea. If you only have an undergrad degree you're likely to end up at Hankuk University or some such place.
Seoul National University it ain't. |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
^ It asks for one, but the conditions are so terrible at that school that only a fool with an MA would accept a job there. A hogwan is a better job. When I worked there all the teachers had simple BA's and the consensus was, "Christ, I can do better than this place." In other words, you'll be working (technically) at a university, but the ethos, management, and conditions are similar to those of a hogwan. If you haven't been fired before the half way mark of your contract, you're actively searching the job adds on Daves for another job. So, again, I advise job applicants to do their research. There are some great university jobs out there. And there are some unigwon hell holes. Do your research, choose carefully and enjoy the life and benefits of a real university job in Korea. If you only have an undergrad degree you're likely to end up at Hankuk University or some such place.
Seoul National University it ain't. |
There is a HUGE difference between the hogwon at HUFS and teaching credit courses at the university. The hogwon part is almost as bad as Wonderland and CDI, In the departments its not bad.
Back to the OP, sorry 90% of the univ gigs in Korea require you to be here for an interview/demo lesson, a univ. desperate for a teacher out in the sticks may do a phone/skype interview but given how saturated the market is they don't really have to anymore. 10 years ago yeah many people got jobs without being here, we did twice back in 1999 and 2002, now...not gonna happen
The rest of your rant is pure drivel, just because one or two people got lucky doesn't mean its true. In fact most Int Schools here won't even recruit inside Korea, they hit the big Int School job fairs in London, Bangkok etc. and DO require a min of 2 years in the K-12 setting in the west. Again with all the certified teachers back home getting laid off because of budget cuts etc, schools can afford to heighten their standards.
Heck look at how hard it is now to get a PS job here, 5 years ago all you needed was a degree and a pulse to get one, now gpa requirements, references etc are all needed |
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nora
Joined: 14 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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It's like with every rule - there is always an exception.
I applied for a dozen uni jobs. None were in Seoul, but about half were in the suburbs and the other half in the provinces. Got a call back from one, during my class, so I talked for a few minutes in the hall. Never heard back from them.
Saw ad 13. Applied, got a call, went in and interviewed, went back and interviewed again, got the job.
When I applied, I only applied for jobs that didn't require an MA or uni experience (i had none). This ad was looking for an MA, but a BA might do. The pay was about 500k more than the others. I figured I had no shot at all, but I got it.
That being said, we just hired one more guy this semester. 30 people applied, 6 were brought in for interviews, 1 was hired. While he is definitely qualified, I'm sure he was not the MOST qualified, but he was the one that was most likely to fit in with our department. People who couldn't be bothered to fill out the right forms, be here in person, etc wouldn't even be accepted to interview - that should tell you something right there. 6 of 30.
Remember, you can't get the job if you don't apply. I got my job because of a combination of experience (in and out of work), charisma (I'd like to think), and luck - I was the right person at the right time. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
| Smithington wrote: |
^ It asks for one, but the conditions are so terrible at that school that only a fool with an MA would accept a job there. A hogwan is a better job. When I worked there all the teachers had simple BA's and the consensus was, "Christ, I can do better than this place." In other words, you'll be working (technically) at a university, but the ethos, management, and conditions are similar to those of a hogwan. If you haven't been fired before the half way mark of your contract, you're actively searching the job adds on Daves for another job. So, again, I advise job applicants to do their research. There are some great university jobs out there. And there are some unigwon hell holes. Do your research, choose carefully and enjoy the life and benefits of a real university job in Korea. If you only have an undergrad degree you're likely to end up at Hankuk University or some such place.
Seoul National University it ain't. |
There is a HUGE difference between the hogwon at HUFS and teaching credit courses at the university. The hogwon part is almost as bad as Wonderland and CDI, In the departments its not bad.
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Sorry, I'm talking exclusively about the Foreign Language Teaching and Training Center(FLTTC) at Hankuk University. That's the place to be wary of. As for the departments, I have never worked there, so I have no opinion. Unfortunately for the OP, it's only the likes of the flttc that will hire people from out-of-country with an undergrad degree. They are desperate because, like any seedy institution, their reputations preceed them. You're better off at a decent hogwan.
Last edited by Smithington on Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:34 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: Posters Spreading Misinformation About Uni and Internati |
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So yes it is possible but not likely and if you do get a job at an international school WITHOUT teaching certification...it's going to be a bottom end/feeder job. It is most definitely NOT going to be top end. |
No it was a top tier school. I don't know how he did to be honest. Lucky I guess. To tell the truth I am very jealous of him. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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I wish someone could compile a comprehensive list of "unigwons" (as opposed to real university jobs) so that fewer people would be deceived into signing a contract (on university heading  ) for what is, for all intents and purposes, a Wonderland job.
How about a sticky? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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There's often a big difference between top tier schools in working conditions and top tier schools in reputation.
And are you sure he was hired as a teacher as opposed to being a teacher's assistant ? |
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