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Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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 Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| rchristo10 wrote: |
| CaliUSA wrote: |
| Hey OP, thanks for posting this. The results of that opinion survey about multiculturalism and racial homogeneity don't surprise me at all. I've never had a bad experience in a foreign country before. I've lived in Mexico and China for extended periods of time, and had a wonderful experience in both places (though I should mention that in China, I lived in Shanghai, which is maybe a realm of its own). But living in South Korea--even a globally-oriented city like Seoul--has been an absolutely miserable experience; coming here was the biggest mistake of my adult life. This is such a rotten, xenophobic, ugly place. |
++1; for anyone who says different (in terms of the racial discrimination/ xenophobia), they've obviously spent too much time in Seoul or simply living with their eyes half shut.
(Although I wouldn't say it's the biggest mistake of my life) Seoul really is a rotten (I'd say spoiled), xenophobic, and often an ugly place in terms of interpersonal relations (esp. with people they don't know--x2 for foreingers they don't know). Sorta feels like a over-rated high school, where people use negativity towards the underdog just to feel like they belong. One of my friends said it's the effects of economizing without really doing much in the way of civilizing. But, I'm still mulling over this.
Seems to me to have more to do with a lack of identity, historical lack of (Western-like) etiquette***, and a general stubbornness to change (that's force fed to kids starting at young ages).
***: I can't help but wonder if the horrible service industry at most Korean restaurants, for example, has something to do with the way food is served. Meat is given to the table to cook on their own with little to no expected "service." So, well, why have a smile and show a kind heart when: 1. there's no tip on its way; and 2. people are expected to cook their own slabs of meat on a stove that's less than an arms length away--where oil and grease pops on the customers time to time and it's generally their problem?
This example is a far stride from being directly connected, but the general combination of so many such historical ideas seem to run counter to the idea of having good service or caring about the foreigner/ underdog/ or Others to begin with. |
I just had to laugh at this statement. I've heard a lot of comparisons and this one is most accurate. Hilarious! |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| It looks like Korea is starting to realize how xenophobia is so rife here. Could it be that the haters on this forum have been right all along, and the apologists need to do some apologizin'? |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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If only Koreans are allowed to love Korea, then only Koreans will love Korea.
If the country can accept that reality then more power to them, just kick us all out and be done with it.
I don't think xenophobia is the norm here, I just think it is tolerated by the press and government. It gives most foreigners the impression the general population is xenophobic because the general population tends to look the other way or just shrug it off. I'm not saying that is a good or better, thing, I am just saying that is the way it appears to me. |
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Mariner
Joined: 24 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| DIsbell wrote: |
| Chinese Americans have risen to become one of America's most successful demographics, all the while maintaining fairly large chunks of their culture. |
Chinese-Americans retain large chunks of their culture because there is still large scale immigration form China. If immigration from China ended tomorrow that large chunk of culture would be mostly gone within two generations. They would culturally become Americans just like what the Japanese-American community is like today. |
?
Is there a national survey that breaks out Chinese Americans from Japanese/Vietnamese/Korean/Filipino Americans?
Or are you just guesstimating? |
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Mariner
Joined: 24 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| DIsbell wrote: |
Other countries have shown benefits from immigration, including Korean immigration. The US is a great place to start- these days there are quite a few Korean Americans in prestigious government positions and Koreans are numerous in our excellent university system as professors, researchers, and students. They're also breaking through in entertainment (comedy, acting) and sports. |
So you are comparing the US to Korea in regards to immigration?
So I assume you will have to then compare the indigenous race of the respective countries.. such as Native Americans?
Have they really benefited from immigration? (Bingo/Gambling aside)
Should Korea enslave SE Asians and emancipate them hundreds of years later, to then embrace a superior multi-cultural society.
How about comparing more similar countries, such as Japan and Korea. Did you know Japan had a program allowing Brasilian Japanese to immigrate back to Japan, only later to evict them from the country and pay them to go back to Brasil.
My point being every country is going to have issues with multi-culturalism... Korea is actually doing well when "objectively" compared to other countries. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| It looks like Korea is starting to realize how xenophobia is so rife here. Could it be that the haters on this forum have been right all along, and the apologists need to do some apologizin'? |
I don't think they are and I don't think you can draw that conclusion from the survey. Being against multiculturalism isn't necessarily xenophobic. People here and back home can have one line of thought regarding government immigration and cultural policy and a completely different one when it comes to how they treat people individually. This goes both ways- There might be some people who agree that "for the good of the economy" foreigners are necessary, but treat them like crap.
Now as for the haters, as far as xenophobia goes, Koreas seems to be of the mild type in terms of NETs/Middle-Rich westerners. When NETs holler about how terrible it is, it just comes across as over-dramatic. If a few old men glower at you and some kids run up and say "hi" that's about as good as it gets when it comes to xenophobia compared to the history of minorities in other countries.
In terms of 3Ds I think its much more severe. There it looks like things are trending towards more negativity. There's a vastly different perception between 3Ds and NETs.
And no, NETs are not seen as AIDs ridden pedophiles. You can claim that all you want, but if it were true people wouldn't leave their kids with us. That's like someone saying they believe all the allegations about Michael Jackson were true and then sending their kids off to the ranch. Only instead of famous and rich Michale Jackson, its some anonymous Uni grad. |
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sojusucks
Joined: 31 May 2008
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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In terms of 3Ds I think its much more severe. There it looks like things are trending towards more negativity. There's a vastly different perception between 3Ds and NETs.
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I would agree, on a one-to-one level with Koreans, but the legal system and media tend to lump everyone together, especially when headlines are all about "Evil foreigners." |
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drydell
Joined: 01 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17789206
Interesting that Breivik is reported to have said that South Korea was an ideal state because it took a stance against multiculturalism in the 1970's... |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
| It looks like Korea is starting to realize how xenophobia is so rife here. |
Look up 제노포비아 on naver and it's surprising how many recent new articles there are on the topic. It seems like it's the new rage in the media. |
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sojusucks
Joined: 31 May 2008
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| And no, NETs are not seen as AIDs ridden pedophiles. You can claim that all you want, but if it were true people wouldn't leave their kids with us. |
Immigration and the school boards seem to think so. They require HIV tests of us yet foreign prostitutes don't need one.
But, yeah, the same Koreans who openly profess to hate the "evil waygookin teachers" then walk right up to every foreigner on the street and offer cash for private lessons. Talk about hypocrites. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| sojusucks wrote: |
| Quote: |
| And no, NETs are not seen as AIDs ridden pedophiles. You can claim that all you want, but if it were true people wouldn't leave their kids with us. |
Immigration and the school boards seem to think so. They require HIV tests of us yet foreign prostitutes don't need one.
But, yeah, the same Koreans who openly profess to hate the "evil waygookin teachers" then walk right up to every foreigner on the street and offer cash for private lessons. Talk about hypocrites. |
I'm pretty sure the Koreans who hate foreigners aren't the same Koreans who are willing to shell out cold hard cash for private lessons from them.
That would be some fairly hard core cognitive dissonance right there. |
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DIsbell
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Mariner wrote: |
| DIsbell wrote: |
Other countries have shown benefits from immigration, including Korean immigration. The US is a great place to start- these days there are quite a few Korean Americans in prestigious government positions and Koreans are numerous in our excellent university system as professors, researchers, and students. They're also breaking through in entertainment (comedy, acting) and sports. |
So you are comparing the US to Korea in regards to immigration?
So I assume you will have to then compare the indigenous race of the respective countries.. such as Native Americans?
Have they really benefited from immigration? (Bingo/Gambling aside)
Should Korea enslave SE Asians and emancipate them hundreds of years later, to then embrace a superior multi-cultural society.
How about comparing more similar countries, such as Japan and Korea. Did you know Japan had a program allowing Brasilian Japanese to immigrate back to Japan, only later to evict them from the country and pay them to go back to Brasil.
My point being every country is going to have issues with multi-culturalism... Korea is actually doing well when "objectively" compared to other countries. |
I noted earlier that initially, the US treated Chinese migrant workers like garbage, but when a multicultural approach was eventually reached, everyone benefited. With Native Americans the situation is similar in that they were first treated awfully and now... less awfully, but the situation is more complex because it wasn't a case of immigration but rather invasion. But one thing that can still be said is that Native Americans still manage to maintain large chunks of their culture despite being a part of the US for generations upon generations and continuing to face difficulties.
I also noted earlier that Japan was the exception- it alone stands out among the really top-tier 1st world countries (judging by economy and quality of life) by having a very closed immigration policy. Other countries, such as Finland, may not have US, Canadian, or British levels of diversity and multiculturalism, but nonetheless have fairly open immigration policy and are largely comfortable with multiculturalism. However, if you know anything about Japan, you should know that they're on the brink of some serious population issues that could have been averted by a more open immigration policy to counter the shrinking family size and low birth rates of the Japanese. This should function as a warning to Korea, who is about a generation behind Japan in terms of development and the resulting demographic trends. Korea has the chance to act now and in a generation end up in Germany's position rather than Japan's. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| sojusucks wrote: |
| Quote: |
| And no, NETs are not seen as AIDs ridden pedophiles. You can claim that all you want, but if it were true people wouldn't leave their kids with us. |
Immigration and the school boards seem to think so. They require HIV tests of us yet foreign prostitutes don't need one.
But, yeah, the same Koreans who openly profess to hate the "evil waygookin teachers" then walk right up to every foreigner on the street and offer cash for private lessons. Talk about hypocrites. |
Some impeccable logic.
We require an AIDs test
So you think I'm AIDs riddled pedophile?
Yeah totally makes sense. I wonder if some of you people ever actually listen to yourselves. |
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littlelisa
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:12 am Post subject: |
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Interestingly, a friend posted this:
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Actually, this is not true.
http://www.koreabang.com/2012/stories/xenophobia-against-newly-elected-filipina-korean-spreads-online.html
This is one of problems of SNS and the web-based media. It spreads quickly even though it is not true.
This xenophobia thing related to Jasmine Lee is made by MBC and KBS that are Saenuri party friendly-broadcasting companies.
It was revealed that KBS and MBC manipulated public opinion.
This xenophobia thing started with article of conservative newspaper (Donga), they wrote an article about some tweets (censure against Jasmine Lee).
Those tweets were, however, criticized by many people, did not get retweet and they had only few followers, thus many people even could not read about it.
This was just few people's opinion (I think these kinds of people are over the world).
Anyway, Donga wrote the article with these few opinion and made them looked like a big issue.
Therefore, many people tweeted about that article, criticized xenophobia and supported Jasmine Lee.
However, MBC and KBS deleted parts of supporting Jasmine Lee and remained article part when they showed tweets on the TV, so it looked like people against Jasmine Lee, but it was opposite.
Jung Gwanghyeon follows 20,000 twitters, but he could not see xenophobia tweets, so he analyzed tweets about Jasmine Lee, then he figured out that the media deleted people's actual opinion (supporting her) and remained article part people linked to. Furthermore, those twitter (xenophobia tweets) do not have many followers (only 15 or 200) which means only 15 or 200 people can read it, because they did not get reweet many times.
http://media.daum.net/society/others/view.html?cateid=1067&newsid=20120417124004742&p=moneytoday
http://media.hangulo.net/1107
The presidents of MBC and KBS are current president of Korea's people, so they manipulate public opinion a lot, this is the reason of labor unions of MBC and KBS are on a strike recently.
There is no more fact, they distort the truth a lot in these days and it spreads quickly through internet.
This is the biggest problem in Korea now.
I just wanted people to know about the truth behind of that dispute.
I know that racism is one of problems in Korea, but sometimes the media made it bigger. |
Has anybody else heard about this? Though I haven't been following Korean news or tweets (I'm not on Twitter), maybe some people here might? In any case, the people around me tend to be left-leaning, so I haven't heard any xenophobic or negative comments about this politician. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| DIsbell wrote: |
| Mariner wrote: |
| DIsbell wrote: |
Other countries have shown benefits from immigration, including Korean immigration. The US is a great place to start- these days there are quite a few Korean Americans in prestigious government positions and Koreans are numerous in our excellent university system as professors, researchers, and students. They're also breaking through in entertainment (comedy, acting) and sports. |
So you are comparing the US to Korea in regards to immigration?
So I assume you will have to then compare the indigenous race of the respective countries.. such as Native Americans?
Have they really benefited from immigration? (Bingo/Gambling aside)
Should Korea enslave SE Asians and emancipate them hundreds of years later, to then embrace a superior multi-cultural society.
How about comparing more similar countries, such as Japan and Korea. Did you know Japan had a program allowing Brasilian Japanese to immigrate back to Japan, only later to evict them from the country and pay them to go back to Brasil.
My point being every country is going to have issues with multi-culturalism... Korea is actually doing well when "objectively" compared to other countries. |
I noted earlier that initially, the US treated Chinese migrant workers like garbage, but when a multicultural approach was eventually reached, everyone benefited. With Native Americans the situation is similar in that they were first treated awfully and now... less awfully, but the situation is more complex because it wasn't a case of immigration but rather invasion. But one thing that can still be said is that Native Americans still manage to maintain large chunks of their culture despite being a part of the US for generations upon generations and continuing to face difficulties.
I also noted earlier that Japan was the exception- it alone stands out among the really top-tier 1st world countries (judging by economy and quality of life) by having a very closed immigration policy. Other countries, such as Finland, may not have US, Canadian, or British levels of diversity and multiculturalism, but nonetheless have fairly open immigration policy and are largely comfortable with multiculturalism. However, if you know anything about Japan, you should know that they're on the brink of some serious population issues that could have been averted by a more open immigration policy to counter the shrinking family size and low birth rates of the Japanese. This should function as a warning to Korea, who is about a generation behind Japan in terms of development and the resulting demographic trends. Korea has the chance to act now and in a generation end up in Germany's position rather than Japan's. |
But are there any Fillipinoes who have been elected to the Diet in Japan? I think with the beginnings of immigration and the increased competition from the FTA will give Korea a huge leg up over Japan.
(But for the record, the xenophobia I have come across has really pissed me off in the past. It does seem less than before, at least for us white folk. Though it is still there and Korea has a long way to go. I'm speaking more long term.) |
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