Korean Job Discussion Forums

[plchron]

midnight run, take their money.

[Blanca]

[quote="Troglodyte"][quote="Blanca"]I'm asking to meet my boss and his wife (who speaks MUCH better English) later this week to [b]discuss the possibility of me handing in a notice and what that would involve[/b], and giving the honest reasons for wanting to leave (concentrating less on hating the job and more on the missing home thing, obviously). If, as I suspect, he's reasonable about the whole thing I'll be handing my notice in and jetting off mid-June, 3 months after I arrived [/quote]

Do NOT do this. If you even bring up the topic, they will immediately suspect that you're going to leave. Just discussing it is the same as if you actually do it. Even if you just say "I'm just curious. Hypothetically, what would be involved in my leaving early?" they will presume that you're leaving and treat you accordingly.


[quote="Blanca"]My thinking behind simply lying is just that - taking the blame off each side by saying "well I'd just love to stay here - it's great - but I've been offered a life-changing opportunity that I simply can't turn down back at home!" [/quote]

The only legit sounding excuse that you could possibly offer them was that your dad called a few hours earlier and told you that your mom is in the hospital with some with some kind of condition that they didn't know about before but that has a fast onset. Her condition is stabilized now but she's being scheduled for surgery in 3 weeks. Ask them how long it would take them to find a new teacher and how much it cost them to bring your over to Korea because you want to pay them back. How good are you at turning on the water works? Can you occasionally cry on demand or run out of the room for a fake cry in the stairwell when the emotional burden of it all overwhelms you?



If the employer is a good guy and treated you right, then you should give notice. If you want to save face, use the sick parent excuse. (It's a favorite among Korean as well.) That said, be aware that they might not be friendly afterwards. Know also that it cost them more to bring you over than just the plane ticket. They likely used a recruiter and paid various fees to rent you an apartment. Granted, you are not legally responsible for those things, and perhaps aren't even moral responsible for them either. You aren't obligated to stay at that job. Just like the school wasn't obligated to pay over a thousand dollars for a recruiter to find you when they could have paid about $100 and advertised directly. (I still think that recruiters are leaches.)[/quote]

Ok so this has worried me a fair bit - the kind of thinking that, to be honest, is making me consider doing a runner. "What if they withold a load of money from me?", "what if they treat me like dirt for a month?" , "isn't it less of a risk to just run for it without all this bull ish?"

Can any other members confirm or deny Trogladyte's sentiments?

The way I see it, until I actually hand in a notice, I'm still their employee and they have no right treating me otherwise. As for "they might think I'm going to do it", that's the whole point - I fully intend to hand in a notice and come home, this meeting is simply to determine how much I owe them and whether it's worth (a) going home in 7 weeks, (b) staying another month to pay them off, or (c) doing a runner after next payday to avoid massive cost and inconvenience of paying off the school. Surely, also, it's sensible (not to mention polite) to at least tell the boss you're thinking of leaving before any handing in of a notice?

Opinions please people, this is important. It could end up costing either me or a good man a freakin' shiet load of money. Either way I'm putting off talking to him for at least a day - Trogladyte's post has put the willies up me a little bit.

[jfromtheway]

Their response is completely unpredictable, and there��s a good chance you��ll be effed. If youre unhappy leave at your own free will. Your attempt at honor could easily be overwhelmed by their childish response to blame you, screw you, and withold money from you. Things can��t always be fair in such an unfair marketplace/industry. I know what I��d do.

[Son Deureo!]

The thought of giving notice should give you the willies. Your boss shelled out quite a bit to get you here in terms of airfare, recruiter fee, and apartment costs and if he finds out you're about to quit on him there's a very real chance he's going to want to recoup those costs from you. The only way to protect yourself is to pull a midnight run, but that's a crappy thing to do to a boss who by your own admission has done nothing to deserve it. No one here can tell you exactly how likely your boss is to shaft you because no one here knows your boss. The sad reality here as that doing the right thing by giving notice is a risky thing to do.

I'm going to echo what some other posters have said, and which is that you might consider sticking it out a bit longer. It's common to feel culture shock in your first few months in Korea, and I was seriously considering bailing as well when I hit the 4-month mark. I hung in there, solved some of the problems that were getting me down, and made it to the end of my contract. Now it's ten years later, I'm still here in a situation that's much better, and I'm working on obtaining permanent residency in Korea. That doesn't have to be you, but if you can at least make it to the end of your contract, you can go home a bit richer and with the pride that comes from finishing what you started and keeping your word even when it was difficult.

[likeanyother]

I have experience quitting 3 months into my contract. My situation was a bit different -- my hagwon was a bit of a nightmare and I didn't want to leave Korea, I just wanted to get out of there. I had to get a letter of release to avoid visa run complications, so I decided to just give the contractually obligated 45-day notice and see what happened.

Long story short, the boss (who was always a bitch) became even more of a bitch. But, I stuck it out. She did end up illegally taking about 850,000 won out of my last paycheck and basically told me: 'I know it's illegal, you can try to fight it, but I'll win because I'm Korean and you're a foreigner.' I thought about fighting it, but in the end, I got my letter and it wasn't worth the hassle, I just wanted to be rid of the place.

So, it can be done. Give them 7 weeks notice, or whatever you need to give. Pay back the airfare (I didn't have to deal with that since I paid my own airfare), and try to leave on good terms. They'll be mad I'm sure, but they'll deal with it. If it becomes intolerable, you can do a runner. But just try to do the right thing first.

[Troglodyte]

The only thing that you're obligated to pay them back is the airfare. That's probably worth about half of your monthly salary. You are also obligated to pay your utilities bill.

Yes, the employer did incur other expenses to hire you, but it's not your responsibility. It sucks for the employer, and if he's a good guy, you should try to minimize his losses by helping him find another teacher without having to use a recruiter, or to have to pay rent on the apartment or to lose some students while he looks for your replacement. In the end though, you shouldn't have to pay him for any losses due to you leaving. If the boss was a jerk, then i'd say you have no moral obligation to help him. If he was cheating you out of your pay then you would have moral ground for cheating him out of the airfare and utilities bill. But he isn't, so you should try to do the right thing, or at least give them the benefit of the doubt.

What's the most that they can withhold from your salary? If you're leaving and not coming back, then they can take all of it and there's not much you can do about it. But since you owe them about half your salary anyway, why not just wait until half way through the month until you tell them that you're leaving? If they do a 180 and treat you like dirt, then get on the next plane out and you can leave knowing that you owe them nothing (half a month's work should pay off your debt to them) and they can't cheat you out of your salary.

If they are decent people though, they'll accept an excuse like "I need to go home to be with my sick mom in case things take a turn for the worse." If they seem understanding, then help them to find a new teacher. It shouldn't take them more than 3 weeks to advertise (e.g. here on Dave's job board), interview and do the visa paperwork. Then as soon as the next teacher is scheduled to arrive, you leave and he/she moves into your apartment. Simple and cheap transition and the excuse you gave saves face for everyone.

Either way, if they've treated you good up until now, then at least pay them back the airfare and offer to help them find a replacement.

[Blanca]

Some serious food for thought - thanks for all the replies fellas (and gals). It's certainly been helpful and given me some important perspectives.

I've decided to take at least another couple of weeks to think about it - how I'm going to play the situation. That way, as Trogladyte says, if I do hand in my notice and they treat me like dirt, I'll only have one payday for them to take money off me (payday is always the 10th), plus a bit of time the other side of that payday to sort it out before I go home.

Either way, the midnight run is a last resort, but is always an option should the worst come to the worst.

[plchron]

pull the sympathetic midnight run. Family member deceased, gtg. take their money. that is what you came here for.

[cronolegs]

How did this play out in the end?

I also wondered why you cant hand in the notice.
Give your terms for staying the length until they find a new employee. IE, you want to be paid regularly through the month on week intervals or something.

If they dont agree then you run.
After all, your doing them a favour by not hitting and running... So if they are not reasonable about the terms then you can decide to run.

It seems like all the cards are in your hands on this one. They have to play by your rules.

[Kimchifart]

[Kimchifart]

[Nismo]

Don't be a cunt about it. Be responsible and live up to the contract you signed. Your irresponsibility will affect future teachers negatively.

[jfromtheway]

[Blanca]

Here's how it's playing out.

I had planned to hand in (or at least discuss handing in) my notice this week, with a view to going about a week after June payday (10th). However, after reading some posts on here, and having a bit of a think, I've realised it's folly to talk about leaving just before a payday (May 10th). This would give him 2 paydays (May and June) in which to screw me. That's 2 grand. Therefore, I'm going to have the discussion immediately following May payday.

My only vulnerability is that he may try to withhold an inordinate amount of pay in June, which he may feel I owe him. I'd usually be paid 1.85 mil after taxes etc, of which I actually owe them 1.2 mil for flights unless he was hideously overcharged. If the boss is a little unscrupulous (which seems unlikely, call me naive) he may well withhold the whole lot for recruiters fees and stuff, so, after living expenses I'll have paid to do my last month.

If everything is amicable and to my satisfaction after the discussion I'll hand in a 35+ day notice and go late-ish June, and trust him to do the right thing. Maybe, as Cronolegs suggests, I'll ask to be paid weekly (plausible?).

On the other hand, if he starts acting up and I get the impression he'll try to screw me, I'll have no hesitation in running. I'm not handing in a notice for my benefit, it's entirely for his because he seems to be a decent bloke. A good initial test of his trust is coming tomorrow (see my thread about my payslip). He seemed to shrug off my request for a payslip today, but it might have been lost in translation. I don't think anyone would blame me for being extremely suspicious if he can't get me a legal payslip, but we'll see.

Also, to anyone saying I've not stuck it out long enough, I completely agree with you. 3 months is nothing to someone who loves it here and has been here for a year and more, and I'm sure the longer you're here the more fun it gets. The problem is, for someone as miserable as I am now (missing home terribly, hating the job, only finding Korea, as a place, to be average at best), 6 months is not reasonable. 6 months of getting up everyday and your first thought being "Christ I can't wait to go home" is not healthy, and subjecting yourself to it simply in the hope that "one day soon it'll get better" is the height of stupidity. What if it doesn't get better and I not only go mental from being this miserable for such a long time, but also miss the summer with my mates back at home? It's not like I've been sat on my arse feeling sorry for myself for 2 months - I've got out and about, made a few friends and sampled some of what Korea is about, I just don't think it's all that. The good times are good but not great, and nowhere near numerous or good enough to make up for the horrid time I have in the week. Throw in an almost unreasonable amount of homesickness (at least as bad as it was in even the first week) and you see where I'm coming from.

Another factor to consider, for me, is my condition - cyclothymia (wiki it). As a sufferer and a graduate of neurophysiology I'm all too aware of where being this miserable for such a long period of time is leading me, and it ain't pretty. I've been guzzling 5-HTP in a desperate attempt to ward off the tidal wave of a depressive episode that I know is coming my way, and whilst being on a drug-induced high all day is great, it's not exactly healthy. I didn't have to take this much at home.

I hope, I mean really hope, that things pick up before I decide to leave. I came here to enjoy myself and if I don't I'll leave disappointed. At the same time though, I have no loyalty to this place and won't hesitate to leave it for good. It's not as though Ulsan is like Paris or New York or London, it's just a very ugly industrial city in a country which itself even recently admitted that "has no brand or identity". I'm not putting that much pressure on myself to fall in love with it.

[ontheway]