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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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 Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Grammar question: really vs. very |
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| WI-Do wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
The other side of this is that some people don�t think that �delicious� is exclusively non-gradable and therefore could take �very��again�debatable.
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I would argue that delisciousness is a gradable item because I know that I have used it in comparative and superlative constructions: "What is the most deliscious food you've eaten?" |
Again, this has to do with a perceptual human element vs. an empirical element.
Your opinion of something you sense might not be on my spectrum of awareness, especially if I were blind or deaf.
Is an apple delicious just sitting there? Can it be rotten just sitting there?
We bite the apple and then conclude, "it is very delicious". The fact we all can assume we have eaten more than 2 kinds of foods gives us the ability to "grade" the taste. We don't have to have eaten the same foods.
However, can an apple be "very rotten"? If you accept at least one rotten apple into whatever you are using it for, then I guess it could. People don't generally buy rotten apples. They reject them, regardless if they are a little bit rotten or "very" rotten.
If you are picking though a bunch of good apples and come upon one that is rotten, you might say, "Wow, this apple is really rotten" as emphasis or surprise. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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I've always found "very delicious" jarring - although now I've almost got used to it, which is quite scary.
"delicious" belongs to a certain class of 'extreme' adjectives that don't collocate with "very". Other examples include:
fantastic
wonderful
extraordinary
amazing
excellent
I like to think the reason is that they already include the concept of being in an intense state, so adding an intensifier like "very" is redundant and/or makes no sense. "excellent", for example, can be seen as meaning "very good", and it is superfluous to put an extra "very" in front of it.
On the other hand, they all collocate fine with the word "really", which is logically equivalent, so why does the language discriminate against "very"? The fact remains, however, that it does and we have to recognize this. Perhaps the reason can be found in the historical evolution of English? If anyone knows the real explanation, please post! |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
I've always found "very delicious" jarring - although now I've almost got used to it, which is quite scary.
"delicious" belongs to a certain class of 'extreme' adjectives that don't collocate with "very". |
Quite right...as has been previously mentioned, these are called non-gradable adjectives.
| Privateer wrote: |
On the other hand, they all collocate fine with the word "really", which is logically equivalent, so why does the language discriminate against "very"? The fact remains, however, that it does and we have to recognize this. Perhaps the reason can be found in the historical evolution of English? If anyone knows the real explanation, please post! |
Except that 'very' and 'really' are only logically equivalent as gradable adverbs or intensifiers...other than that...they can play very/really different roles in grammatical situations.
This is a very/really good thread. (thread - gradable adjective)
Both 'very' and 'really' can be used as intensifiers to modify gradable adjectives and adverbs.
Really can be used as an adverb...very cannot.
I really appreciate your insights in this thread.
I very appreciate your insights in this thread. (?)
Really can be used for both gradable and some non-gradable adjectives in much the same way as 'a lot of' can be used for both count and non-count nouns.
'Lots of' is always correct with both countable and non-countable nouns.
With 'much' and 'many' you have to know which is which.
I think this is why Ed mentioned teaching 'really' as the fail safe to his students...using 'really' is more often correct with both gradable and non-gradable adjectives...with very....not so. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| After 8 1/2 months of labor the woman would be very and really dead. |
Yes, whoops 
| Quote: |
| I think this is why Ed mentioned teaching 'really' as the fail safe to his students...using 'really' is more often correct with both gradable and non-gradable adjectives...with very....not so. |
Yes true. With the caveat that you can't say 'I like it really much.' English can be a bastard.
There's also the question of non gradable quantifiers such as 'totally' 'completely' etc...which sound bad with gradable adjectives
'it was totally good', 'it was absolutely cold.' Although the first one sounds to me like the kind of thing an American teenager might say |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| After 8 1/2 months of labor the woman would be very and really dead. |
Yes, whoops
| Quote: |
| I think this is why Ed mentioned teaching 'really' as the fail safe to his students...using 'really' is more often correct with both gradable and non-gradable adjectives...with very....not so. |
Yes true. With the caveat that you can't say 'I like it really much.' English can be a bastard. |
Yes...and we can't say...I like it much.
but we can say...I like it a lot....but not very a lot...or really a lot.
But apparently, according to the legendary linguist Janet Jackson, we can say.
I miss you much
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVF0zcqr9Dg
Ahh..the joys of grammar...or how was that again?
" English can be a bastard."  |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Privateer wrote: |
I've always found "very delicious" jarring - although now I've almost got used to it, which is quite scary.
"delicious" belongs to a certain class of 'extreme' adjectives that don't collocate with "very". |
Quite right...as has been previously mentioned, these are called non-gradable adjectives.
| Privateer wrote: |
On the other hand, they all collocate fine with the word "really", which is logically equivalent, so why does the language discriminate against "very"? The fact remains, however, that it does and we have to recognize this. Perhaps the reason can be found in the historical evolution of English? If anyone knows the real explanation, please post! |
Except that 'very' and 'really' are only logically equivalent as gradable adverbs or intensifiers...other than that...they can play very/really different roles in grammatical situations.
This is a very/really good thread. (thread - gradable adjective)
Both 'very' and 'really' can be used as intensifiers to modify gradable adjectives and adverbs.
Really can be used as an adverb...very cannot.
I really appreciate your insights in this thread.
I very appreciate your insights in this thread. (?)
Really can be used for both gradable and some non-gradable adjectives in much the same way as 'a lot of' can be used for both count and non-count nouns.
'Lots of' is always correct with both countable and non-countable nouns.
With 'much' and 'many' you have to know which is which.
I think this is why Ed mentioned teaching 'really' as the fail safe to his students...using 'really' is more often correct with both gradable and non-gradable adjectives...with very....not so. |
Thanks. Very. |
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