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"We are unkind host to foreigners"
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TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:27 pm Post subject:

Julius wrote:

[
Come onnnn offtherails. AES was bent on ousting FT's from this country's educational system while imposing ridiculously heavier restrictions on anyone left behind.

For a small group, they have been spectacularly successful.. .

They have been spectacularly successful? Except that the facts don't bear you out.

You claim that "AES was bent on ousting FT's from this country's educational system" yet almost every year the numbers of foreign teachers here has INCREASED. Looks to me like they have been spectacularly UNsuccessful.

Julius

Joined: 27 Jul 2006

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:39 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

How do the children of foreign brides, who only speak Korean, and behave in exactly the same way as other Koreans, count as multiculturalism?

Except they don't.

I know several of these mixed race children. They are usually bi lingual and they don't behave exactly like Koreans. They learn bits of both cultures.

You're trying to make out that a child learns nothing from his Vietnamese mother, that she is basically a cardboard prop who never passes on her language, ideas, and culture? That instead.. young Nguyen Kim decides to only emulate his Korean father (who is usually absent away at work or dinners 12 hours a day).

Hand that rocks the cradle, sonny. Hand that rocks the cradle.

UrbanMitt wrote:

You claim that "AES was bent on ousting FT's from this country's educational system" yet almost every year the numbers of foreign teachers here has INCREASED.

perhaps in the private sector. Hagwons and the like.

What AES targetted was the government schools...which by and large took their advice. Thats why GEPIK, SMOE etc have all eliminated most of their foreign teachers or at least planned to do so.

slothrop

Joined: 03 Feb 2003

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:06 pm Post subject:

edit Last edited by slothrop on Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:25 pm Post subject:

Julius wrote:

Steelrails wrote:

How do the children of foreign brides, who only speak Korean, and behave in exactly the same way as other Koreans, count as multiculturalism?

UrbanMitt wrote:

You claim that "AES was bent on ousting FT's from this country's educational system" yet almost every year the numbers of foreign teachers here has INCREASED.

Nonsense. Up until last year the number of foreign teachers at public schools was increasing. One of LMB's pledges was a foreign teacher in every middle school. What is happening now is due to budget constraints and political posturing. There is an election coming up or have you forgotten? Once a new guy comes in things will settle down and go back to normal. And so it goes.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:55 pm Post subject:

Quote:

their real accomplishmant is that they have successfuly fabricated or overexagerated xenophobic propaganda on their website that the mainstream korean media(newspapers and tv) have repeatedly sited as credible sources and ran with the story. this has created a backlash of public fear that unscrupulous politicians have latched onto to get votes by passing TONS of new legislation year after year to build their careers upon.

Tons of new legislation?

Quote:

most foreigners in korea are not even aware of the weekly special reports that disparage their reputations.

And aren't there many more reports which highlight positive acts by foreigners in the media?

Quote:

try this for an experiment; next time you are at lunch or dinner with several korean coworkers ask them if it is true that kimchi cures aids. of course they will all say no, that is just silly and unscientific, no clear thinking person these days would beilive that. now wait. eventually someone will bring up that although kimchi doesn't CURE aids, it does possess certain PREVENTATIVE qualities that defend you against catching it in the first place. then look around and judge for yourself how many at the table if not completely convinced, do believe that there is SOMTHING to this folk wisdom. do you know why alot of them think it possible?

No, I don't think any of them would even think kimchi prevents AIDs. Unless I'm mistaken and those signs and scenes on TV and in the movies and in brochures show people handing out jars of kimchi and not condoms....

If we are so smeared, then how come Hagwons feature smiling foreign faces on ads for their courses and materials?

"Hey, I want to advertise my company...I know! Put an AIDs riddled pedophile on!"

Or MAYBE we aren't smeared...Maybe in a desperate attempt to be a victim or out of some exaggerated sense of entitlement, some people over-exaggerate things and try to whip up a bunch of hysteria claiming "they're all out to get us".

Reminds me a bit of a Chris Rock bit where he went off about how some black people feel that "the media" is out to get them and how they have to be afraid of the media...Sorry but if I see a KBS Van pass by, I'm not going "Run!!! It's the media!!!!"

Quote:

hy aren't the newsmen all staked out at the thousands of redlight districts where married korean men, many of them gov officials regulary break the law by paying for you know what? is it because that story doesn't sell papers? are they instructed NOT to pursue that story? or maybe the camera men are just too busy in hongdae getting their 10 second clips of foerigners with korean girls legally entertaining themselves? i leave that to you to decide.

Anyone who knows anything about the Korean media knows they love to tear down famous figures.

Quote:

I know several of these mixed race children. They are usually bi lingual and they don't behave exactly like Koreans. They learn bits of both cultures.

Really? I know many mixed race kids, living in the rural areas and all, they are usually not bilingual (mom is directed to speak Korean), and they behave just like everyone else- studying, goofing off, playing computer games.

Besides Julius, you seem to be baffled that Koreans can tell a non-Korean, yet at the same time you say these kids "act different". Did you notice that they acted differently before you learned they were mixed race or after? If it was after was that simply because you heard they were mixed and tried to see something different in them?

Quote:

young Nguyen Kim decides to only emulate his Korean father

Are you serious? Nguyen Kim? Nguyen is a last name you dolt, same with Kim. And all the kids have Korean names.

No, they aren't multicultural. They are assimilated. They aren't part of some ethnic enclave. They eat Korean food every day, they speak Korean, if they do speak their mother's language it is usually only a few basic expressions, and they have zero interest in identifying as Vietnamese or Filipino.

Julius as a biologist would conclude a dolphin is a fish because it lives in the water.

slothrop

Joined: 03 Feb 2003

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:06 pm Post subject:

edit Last edited by slothrop on Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:58 pm; edited 2 times in total

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:51 pm Post subject:

slothrop wrote:

c

and maybe everybody in the world IS a victim of some type of injustice if you look at life objectively, and those that point out those injustices are trying to start a dialogue to correct it. where as those who take offense at the notion that some people are being victimized are really just reacting out of fear because either they do not want to face reality or else put forth the effort to try to improve things in the future.

ps. and yes, i have had several adult students(their jobs were all public school teacher) who i taught in graduate classes, and they ALL told me about the wonderful preventative value of kimchi. admittedly, this was 3-4 years ago. it is possible i'm behind the times.

First of all complaining on ESLcafe is not "trying to start a dialogue" to correct ANYTHING. The Korean politicians do not read Dave's to get a handle on what their policies should be much less care what 50-100 foreign teachers think. Get over yourself. The only thing you are doing is venting. Fine, vent away but don't try to dress it up as attempting to improve things in the future. An anonymous poster on a obscure website isn't going to change a thing.

Several adult students do not represent all of Korea or Koreans and is too far a insignificant sample size to mean anything. A pointless anecdote which does not relate to what we are discussing in other words.

slothrop

Joined: 03 Feb 2003

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:01 pm Post subject:

edit Last edited by slothrop on Wed May 02, 2012 1:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

flakfizer

Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:11 pm Post subject:

slothrop wrote:

chris rock! hahahahah! the media WAS out to get them! until the cosby show every black on TV was dipicted as either living in the projects with an obese mama and unemployed father or else a huggy bear type pimp!

The Jeffersons lived in a deluxe apartment in the sky.

slothrop

Joined: 03 Feb 2003

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:02 am Post subject:

edit Last edited by slothrop on Wed May 02, 2012 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

joelove

Joined: 12 May 2011

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:44 am Post subject:

flakfizer wrote:

slothrop wrote:

The Jeffersons lived in a deluxe apartment in the sky.

Don't forget Sidney Poitier and the Belafontes. OK, movie stars or whatever, but seems like they were/are always depicted as classy. Also, Welcome Back Kotter. Sure he was white, and this makes me look like an idiot, but my point stands, and dare I say, uncontested.

Wait, what does this have to do with the thread, and why am I posting it? Oh, yeah, just kinda bored here.

slothrop

Joined: 03 Feb 2003

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:36 am Post subject:

edit Last edited by slothrop on Wed May 02, 2012 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:04 am Post subject:

Quote:

i can't beleive there are foreigners who have lived in korea for many years who are such apologists that they even refuse to admit that there are many koreans who believe that kimchi has qualities that act as a preventative toward getting aids.

First off, your links are put up by the US media, which if you ever pay attention to, loves to take an isolated incident or view of "strange, exotic" other countries and turn them into major trends which everyone in that country practice.

And again, if what you're saying is true, then how come health clinics and sex ed places don't hand out jars of kimchi to prevent AIDs? Why in "My Sassy Girl" does the dude not accidentally drop out a bag of kimchi and tell the dad he has it in his pocket to prevent AIDs?

Do you seriously believe that if some hooker told a Korean that they had AIDs, they'd just eat a dish of kimchi and hop into the sack for some nice, unprotected sex?

Quote:

BTW, i never thought i was writing for an audience of korean lawmakers who after reading my crazy rants were going to see the light and repeal recent legislation. i likened it more to sitting around having some beers with coworkers,

I'll agree with this, you have a take, aren't taking yourself too seriously, and always put in a disclaimer understanding that a lot of silliness like this goes on in other places.

It is like a fun BS conversation at a bar...

slothrop

Joined: 03 Feb 2003

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:09 am Post subject:

edit Last edited by slothrop on Wed May 02, 2012 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

madoka

Joined: 27 Mar 2008

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:33 am Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Except that the facts don't bear you out.

Hey when did Julius ever let something as trivial as reality get in the way of his axe-grinding? Laughing

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