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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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 Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| We're using them but our economy is lagging while theirs grows and grows and grows. That's a strange type of using. |
Yes, it is sort of strange from our perspective, but from the perspective of multinational banks/corporations (which basically have the US government bought and paid for) it makes a whole lot more sense.
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| As for technology, China doesn't have to innovate; it just steals. That's why most foreign companies doing business have some sort of joint venture arrangement which includes sharing of technology. And they're now setting up shop in the U.S. and the EU. |
This is not an accident. Call it stealing, or call it giving - China cannot innovate while a communist country, and I can't think of even a single Chinese company that rivals major US corporations. As for setting up shop in the US and EU, I see limited evidence of this. China is basically just a workshop for cheap export goods. The Chinese monetary system is also subservient to the US, since the dollar is the reserve currency (not vice versa).
Yes. The Soviet Union was built up by Western companies. |
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Spartacist
Joined: 18 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| Simplistic reasoning--those industries/corporations employ lots and lots of people who will benefit from those industries/corporations' gains. |
Now who's being simplistic? Who's to say that those profits won't just be put in a bank vault, spent on equipment rather than labour, given as dividends to investors, used to pay ever higher chief executive salaries, or used off-shore? This kind of trickle down economics has just helped line the pockets of the wealthy and increase income disparity over the past 30 years.
| atwood wrote: |
| It's pretty clear what's happening in the world economy. You have the mercantilist Asian economies preying on the free market polices of Western nations. Western nations need to close their markets to Asian trade until Asian markets reciprocate. Easier said than done because so many corporations want access to China's markets and cheap manufacturing. |
BAD Asian economies, preying on the West! The way I see it is, Asian economies have been successful because they haven't always succumbed to free market ideology and have sometimes protected their economy, and are not averse to government intervention in the market. Compare their performance these days to the USA and the UK who swallowed the neoliberal free market Kool Aid. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Spartacist wrote: |
| The way I see it is, Asian economies have been successful because they haven't always succumbed to free market ideology and have sometimes protected their economy, and are not averse to government intervention in the market. Compare their performance these days to the USA and the UK who swallowed the neoliberal free market Kool Aid. |
The way you see it has little bearing on reality. There's an overwhelming amount of government involvement in the U.S. economy through regulation, trade policy and monetary policy. These forces are used to give more power to the largest donors. In the U.S., these are financial institutions. In China, manufacturing runs the show. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Spartacist wrote: |
| BAD Asian economies, preying on the West! The way I see it is, Asian economies have been successful because they haven't always succumbed to free market ideology and have sometimes protected their economy, and are not averse to government intervention in the market. Compare their performance these days to the USA and the UK who swallowed the neoliberal free market Kool Aid. |
The only reason China and other Asian economies grow so fast is because the the West has already paved the way. Easy to grow your GDP 10% when you're just modernizing along well established lines - a lot more difficult when you actually have to do the innovating.
As for the US and UK, they are both countries with heavy government regulation in the economy. If anything, our lackluster performance is an indictment of government intervention. The bigger the government gets the worse the economy gets. Go figure. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Spartacist wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Simplistic reasoning--those industries/corporations employ lots and lots of people who will benefit from those industries/corporations' gains. |
Now who's being simplistic? Who's to say that those profits won't just be put in a bank vault, spent on equipment rather than labour, given as dividends to investors, used to pay ever higher chief executive salaries, or used off-shore? This kind of trickle down economics has just helped line the pockets of the wealthy and increase income disparity over the past 30 years.
| atwood wrote: |
| It's pretty clear what's happening in the world economy. You have the mercantilist Asian economies preying on the free market polices of Western nations. Western nations need to close their markets to Asian trade until Asian markets reciprocate. Easier said than done because so many corporations want access to China's markets and cheap manufacturing. |
BAD Asian economies, preying on the West! The way I see it is, Asian economies have been successful because they haven't always succumbed to free market ideology and have sometimes protected their economy, and are not averse to government intervention in the market. Compare their performance these days to the USA and the UK who swallowed the neoliberal free market Kool Aid. |
But who would the Chinese and the Koreans and the Japanese be selling to if Western markets weren't open? How would they succeeded? The answer, of course, is that they wouldn't have succeeded. That's where your argument fails.
The West, however, can no longer afford to be so charitable towards Asia. Nor should it be if Asia is not going to open their markets and continue their predatory practices. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Spartacist wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Simplistic reasoning--those industries/corporations employ lots and lots of people who will benefit from those industries/corporations' gains. |
Now who's being simplistic? Who's to say that those profits won't just be put in a bank vault, spent on equipment rather than labour, given as dividends to investors, used to pay ever higher chief executive salaries, or used off-shore? This kind of trickle down economics has just helped line the pockets of the wealthy and increase income disparity over the past 30 years.
| atwood wrote: |
| It's pretty clear what's happening in the world economy. You have the mercantilist Asian economies preying on the free market polices of Western nations. Western nations need to close their markets to Asian trade until Asian markets reciprocate. Easier said than done because so many corporations want access to China's markets and cheap manufacturing. |
BAD Asian economies, preying on the West! The way I see it is, Asian economies have been successful because they haven't always succumbed to free market ideology and have sometimes protected their economy, and are not averse to government intervention in the market. Compare their performance these days to the USA and the UK who swallowed the neoliberal free market Kool Aid. |
Somebody builds the equipment. Somebody sells it. Somebody services it. Somebody builds replacement parts.
Investors include lots of middle-class persons. Why shouldn't they get a dividend on their investments?
Job creation is important. It's not trickle-down economics. You continue to be simplistic. |
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