Korean Job Discussion Forums

[jaj]

The procedure is outlawed as a form of mutilation in the United Kingdom and all countries that have signed the European Convention for the Protection of Pet Animals. In the United States, devocalization is illegal by state law in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and by city ordinance in Warwick, Rhode Island. Efforts to ban devocalization are underway in other states.

Don't anticipate any animal rights groups taking on a cause like this in the land of knife happy surgeons and dog soup...

[northway]

Gotta love the Commonwealth.

[NYC_Gal 2.0]

It might happen in America, but in my 26 years of living in the USA, I never met a dog that had had it done. Here, I see at least 3 a week.

[Plume D'ella Plumeria]

I am in no way defending the practice and was in fact, quite horrified when I first learned of it. But I've done some reading about it and (kind of) get why some (in the USA, anyway), do it.

Dogs bark for a number of reasons. Communication, of course and "alert" barking, as in, "Hey, did you notice that someone is outside the door/knocking?" It can also by a symptom of separation anxiety when the owner is away from home. And then, some breeds are just barkier than others.

But there are situations where incessant barking, despite owner efforts to train it out without success, is bringing on neighbor complaints to the point where an owner might feel that they have no other choice other than give up the dog. This could mean a shelter, it could mean euthanizing the dog or worse, just dumping the dog somewhere to fend for itself.

So they elect to debark the dog to soften its bark and save everyone; themselves, the neighbors and especially the dog, some grief. The dog gets to keep its home, the neighbors are mollified and the owners don't get the constant complaints. I can't really fault that.

My own dog is an alert barker. She lets me know when the doorbell is ringing just in case I didn't hear it on my own. I thank her for doing her job and then tell her she can hush up now. And she does hush up because she's a well trained dog.

I don't doubt that it happens more in Korea than in the States though. And for probably less than noble reasons. Might be more of an inconvenience reason which I am not at all down with.

[cj1976]

My sister in law had the op done on her dog because it was barking at all hours and driving the neighbours up the wall. No big deal. The dog is still happy and well cared for and the neighbours can get some sleep now. Sounds like a fair deal to me.

[fermentation]

I'm torn on this kind of stuff. The animal obviously gets advantages of shelter and getting fed from being debarked but at the same time it still sucks. How would people feel about having surgery done on them to be part of society? Of course a human being can be asked while a dog has no choice on the matter.

Ultimately in my opinion, if you can't train the dog to be more quiet and aren't prepared to deal with the consequences of it not listening to you, you're not ready to be a dog owner. Should've thought long and hard about that first.

[warmachinenkorea]

If a dog is barking all hours of the day for "what seems like" no reason. Then the dog isn't getting something it needs.

The owner hasn't done a good enough job of taking care of the dog mentally.
Some breeds are more vocal than others, but dogs don't bark without reason.

[NYC_Gal 2.0]

Our dog used to bark a LOT. We lived in an officetel building with a lot of really noisy neighbors, and he was very territorial, and would bark whenever he heard someone in the hall. We've since moved to an apartment building with far fewer people, and, while he does occasionally bark, we've taught him to lower his voice when we give the command. He now just grunts low woofs of disapproval after his first bark or two, which we are okay with, as it's his job to let us know that there are people outside (which isn't often, now that there are only four apartments per floor, rather than twelve.)

We did use a remote collar that had vibrate and static shock for a few weeks, though. I tested it on myself, and it wasn't painful, just annoying. He'd get the vibrate as a warning, and if he didn't stop, he'd get a little zap. He learned really quickly, and within 2 weeks only needed vibrate. In less than a month, he responded to our commands without even needing the collar. This was after trying several other methods (which had worked with my family's three previous dogs, back home.) He's fairly stubborn, but happy to please, now that he understands what we want from him. It just took a bit more work.

It's important to try to be aware of what your dog wants. Many people see them as toys or pieces of furniture. My dog works for his food and shelter (letting me know when someone's at the door, bug catching, daily training, and waking me up early for our morning walk/jog) and he's happier for it. It's like giving a young student a responsibility. They're going to be proud of themselves.

One doesn't just get a dog and expect them to poop rainbows. They eat shoes and destroy things. They're great, though.

[Plume D'ella Plumeria]

[Mix1]

[NYC_Gal 2.0]

Yeah, I wasn't thrilled with the idea of the collar (I cried a bit after ordering it, thinking it would be cruel, but after I tested it out I realized it really wasn't painful, just annoying,) but we used it sparingly and it really did work.

If I went for a cookie as a kid, after having been told no, I got an immediate smack on my hand. I equate it to that. Not really painful, but not pleasant. I always said "No" when he got the vibrate or zap. He knew it was me. He knew what the remote control meant.

Regardless, throughout the training process, he received praise and all the love in the world, but we needed to explain that certain behavior (not quieting down after being told) was unacceptable. It was a last resort, but he's a very happy dog, and learned the correct behavior.

I love dogs, too. Mine, in particular. He's a family member, and I try to make his life a very happy one.

[fermentation]

[Mix1]

[The Cosmic Hum]

[12ax7]

I think the surgery is a symptom of people who don't consider the obvious, which is that the cute puppy they just gotta have will one day be able to bark, and will do so day and night.

But, I guess it beats being sent to live on the farm, if you know what I mean.