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"Yes, I can use chopsticks:the everyday microaggression
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slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by slothrop on Tue May 08, 2012 5:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Zyzyfer

Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| slothrop wrote: |
| never lose sight of the main goal; which is to get invited upstairs and have the sushi chef give you one of his priceless hatori hanseo swords so you can commence with your mission. |
Ah, so that is what has replaced the "coming up for coffee" euphemism. Taking the sushi chef's Hattori Hanzo sword. |
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slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:13 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by slothrop on Tue May 08, 2012 7:55 am; edited 2 times in total |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012 Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:18 am Post subject: |
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as an undergrad attending uni in the mountain state of Colorado, and the northern region of Ft. Collins (which some referred to as "southern Wyoming even) most of us after a while considered ourselves pretty outdoorsy and acclimated to the region which, before years of drought and record breaking warm weather set in, was known for intense storms and long periods of bitter cold, especially in the mountains.
a prof told this story in class once about an outfitter (someone who guides hunters on horseback into the mountains/woods) who took 2 city fellows out elk hunting. a storm set in so they camped and waited for it to blow through. the next morning was bright and sunny and the fellows wanted to venture out hunting but the outfitter insisted they stay put another day. thinking he just wanted to extend the trip an extra day, they demanded to go out. he said, no way, I'm staying put but if you want to go, please go ahead and go. then when you start getting a little tired, please lean forward over a log as you fall asleep.
they said huh? why? he replied because it will make it easier for me to haul your bodies back on horseback when you freeze to death.
needless to say, they decided to wait another day before venturing out.
the point was, the outfitter (and those of us in the class that day) all knew that the weather that blew in the storm had cold air behind it and the real danger was how far down it would drop behind the storm - which was easy to miss for newbies due to the sunny skies that came afterwards, confusing those that don't always pay attention to such things. in some regions, tho, not paying attention to the weather can be a deadly mistake.
the hidden agression in many people's speech and conversations isn't just based on ignorance but also on a class system that seems to say that those of us who come to other places other than where we usually live/reside/work are of somewhat a different and more knowledgeable persuasion than the local residents - which often clashes with the local residents' opinion of those who come into an area they know nothing about and putter about as if they do.
both sides are partially correct and often learn from each other, either unwillingly or not. it's how our society evolves and cultures develop and change.
specifically to the chopsticks, I also thought it fascinating how surprised many Koreans would be when I would retort to their remarks about how well I used chopsticks, that many countries use them, not just Korea, and since I was fond of all kinds of different cuisines, which are often easily available in the U.S., I had been using chopsticks for many years. |
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myenglishisno
Joined: 08 Mar 2011 Location: Geumchon
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| luckylady wrote: |
specifically to the chopsticks, I also thought it fascinating how surprised many Koreans would be when I would retort to their remarks about how well I used chopsticks, that many countries use them, not just Korea, and since I was fond of all kinds of different cuisines, which are often easily available in the U.S., I had been using chopsticks for many years. |
I think Koreans are brainwashed into certain ways of thinking as part of their "education" more than they realize. Not so much now but certainly in the past and their parents do a lot to encourage it.
My grandfather ordered us Chinese food every weekend and we'd go at it with chopsticks for the fun of it. After awhile, I became good with chopsticks, long before I knew where Korea was on the map.
One of my Korean students asked me how I was able to find chopsticks in Canada and how a Western kid was able to figure them out without being taught... I don't even. |
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Konglishman

Joined: 14 Sep 2007 Location: Nanjing
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| slothrop wrote: |
| Konglishman wrote: |
| slothrop wrote: |
| transmogrifier wrote: |
| The Sultan of Seoul wrote: |
With an outlook as shallow as yours, I'm betting you DO have enjoyable conversations with Koreans...
Lord forbid a person or people's environment, history, genetics or any other factor could be an influence as to how or why they do something and / or how or why they do it differently from someone else! No, people just 'do things.' No casuality whatsoever!
I bet you love Plato  |
Hate to tell you this, but disliking psychologists diagnosing everything is not the same as saying there is no causality at all in anything.
That's simple Logic 101. And you failed it.
You have managed two logical fallacies at once: the False Dichotomy (where the arguer erroneously depicts the discussion as being between only two directly opposite conclusions, one of which is so obviously ridiculous that the alternative can be the only correct one) and the Strawman (where the arguer ignores his opposition's real stance and rephrases it as an exaggeration or complete misrepresentation).
So that's pretty impressive. I'm sure they've already got a name for that type of disorder. |
you have successfuly used logic to point out the illogic of another's thought process. that is soooo passe'. i bet you have a poster of bertrand russel and alfred north whitehead hanging in your kitchen. every hip philosopher since the later wittgenstein recognizes that 'logic' does not exist in some higher realm where symbols dance the synthetic apriori two step, but only a private language that say nothing of this world beyond the analytic, ie, definitions that define themselves. your geometry is bending! and there are cracks in your axioms, sir! the world is NOT all that is the case, and where we can not speak we must sing.  |
So, being hip is being right... Whatever... As a neo-platonist, I must strongly disagree with you. Now, certainly, there are limits to logic as we know it, but as a neo-platonist, I believe in the existence of a kind of meta-logic...
Now, back to the conversation at hand, going along with this concept of micro-agression, I find that there are certain conversations that I have to keep off-limits when chatting with the majority of Koreans. |
the sentence written below is true.
the sentence written above is false.
you can break both these sentences down to logical symbols and do the calculations to prove them valid. yet at no time do they ever say anything about the world, only the language we use to describe it.
logic and neoplatonism are dead because you can not have a set that includes all sets. because once you imagine it there will be another set needed to encompass that one. reductio ad absurdam. infinite regress of reason. this is your brain on logic. a mind is a terrible thing.
Om Mani Padme Hum
edit:the above sentences are an example of the kind you should be speaking with koreans. everything else is just uncletomming it.  |
Actually, I think it is a problem with our consciousness. Imagine for a second that there are other dimensions in logic which can bypass this sort of Godel problem. Or perhaps, we need all of the tools (of which we do not have due to the mere finite ability of the human mind) available to consciousness in order to for example, be able to simultaneously and infinitely discuss all sets containing other sets. By the way, I am also a mysterian although I do believe that problems such as consciousness have underlying logical (perhaps, meta-logical would be a better word) explanations but just cannot be understood by us humans. |
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The Sultan of Seoul
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 Location: right... behind.. YOU
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:59 am Post subject: |
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Meh, they can both be classed within one set which becomes meaningful;
'The two sentences have meaning as a pair. They contradict each other and thus are example of a paradox.'
Everything can have meaning as long as it is included in a set of those items that it has a realtionship with that gives it reference.
Nothing is an island and only has meaning if related to something else.
The real question is, what are these things when not being referenced in relation to human consciousness. Do they even exist at all?
These are the conversations we should start having with Koreans when they start their predictable questions and statements. They'll soon stop if they start to realise they're going to get brain fry in retalliation every time.
"Can you eat kimchi? Is very spicy."
"Yes Mr Chang, you've seen me eat it over 96 times now. Actually, I'd like to ask you something.... Do you think anything can be said to have meaning if not considered in relationship with another thing? For example, Borges proposes a fictional world where things themself are made from multiple nouns and can be both nouns AND VERBS at the same time, for example, to experience a lovely sunrise whilst swimming in a lake would be one set in itself known as something like 'Yesterday I part of the earth which is not solid and is wet on my skin wettingly I am in it as smell of tree is treeing and bird, birding sound I feel as eyes experience blue sky, blueing, blueing, 'July to August blueing' would be considered as one 'thing'. Maybe we should discuss this in our grade 3 class? Could you help me with a ppt...?" |
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slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 3:27 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by slothrop on Tue May 08, 2012 7:53 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Konglishman

Joined: 14 Sep 2007 Location: Nanjing
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| The Sultan of Seoul wrote: |
Meh, they can both be classed within one set which becomes meaningful;
'The two sentences have meaning as a pair. They contradict each other and thus are example of a paradox.'
Everything can have meaning as long as it is included in a set of those items that it has a realtionship with that gives it reference.
Nothing is an island and only has meaning if related to something else.
The real question is, what are these things when not being referenced in relation to human consciousness. Do they even exist at all?
These are the conversations we should start having with Koreans when they start their predictable questions and statements. They'll soon stop if they start to realise they're going to get brain fry in retalliation every time.
"Can you eat kimchi? Is very spicy."
"Yes Mr Chang, you've seen me eat it over 96 times now. Actually, I'd like to ask you something.... Do you think anything can be said to have meaning if not considered in relationship with another thing? For example, Borges proposes a fictional world where things themself are made from multiple nouns and can be both nouns AND VERBS at the same time, for example, to experience a lovely sunrise whilst swimming in a lake would be one set in itself known as something like 'Yesterday I part of the earth which is not solid and is wet on my skin wettingly I am in it as smell of tree is treeing and bird, birding sound I feel as eyes experience blue sky, blueing, blueing, 'July to August blueing' would be considered as one 'thing'. Maybe we should discuss this in our grade 3 class? Could you help me with a ppt...?" |
Why restrict these ideas to human consciousness? Other high forms of consciousness may have different perceptions of these ideas such as in what internal sensory qualia are used to understand these ideas.
Now, this is only my gut feeling, but I think that consciousness is somehow constructed out of logic... Yes, I know that sounds a little absurd but only because our understanding of logic is too restricted by the very fact that human consciousness is finite in nature. In fact, I seem to recall reading somewhere about an argument that consciousness may just be a kind of self-referential system of logic.
On that basis, perhaps, an argument can be made that the full nature of consciousness can never be fully understood by a finite mind. Perhaps, this would entail having to be able to perceive more and more sensory qualia out of an infinite set of qualia... Still, I would argue that the truth lies out there in infinity thereby requiring an infinite mind. Therefore, it would seem that only God (if there is a god) can understand the meta-logic of consciousness. |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| The Sultan of Seoul wrote: |
These are the conversations we should start having with Koreans when they start their predictable questions and statements. They'll soon stop if they start to realise they're going to get brain fry in retalliation every time.
"Can you eat kimchi? Is very spicy."
"Yes Mr Chang, you've seen me eat it over 96 times now. Actually, I'd like to ask you something.... Do you think anything can be said to have meaning if not considered in relationship with another thing? For example, Borges proposes a fictional world where things themself are made from multiple nouns and can be both nouns AND VERBS at the same time, for example, to experience a lovely sunrise whilst swimming in a lake would be one set in itself known as something like 'Yesterday I part of the earth which is not solid and is wet on my skin wettingly I am in it as smell of tree is treeing and bird, birding sound I feel as eyes experience blue sky, blueing, blueing, 'July to August blueing' would be considered as one 'thing'. Maybe we should discuss this in our grade 3 class? Could you help me with a ppt...?" |
Nah, this would just increase the amount of mandatory drug testing for E-2 visa holders. |
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The Sultan of Seoul
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 Location: right... behind.. YOU
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| Son Deureo! wrote: |
| The Sultan of Seoul wrote: |
These are the conversations we should start having with Koreans when they start their predictable questions and statements. They'll soon stop if they start to realise they're going to get brain fry in retalliation every time.
"Can you eat kimchi? Is very spicy."
"Yes Mr Chang, you've seen me eat it over 96 times now. Actually, I'd like to ask you something.... Do you think anything can be said to have meaning if not considered in relationship with another thing? For example, Borges proposes a fictional world where things themself are made from multiple nouns and can be both nouns AND VERBS at the same time, for example, to experience a lovely sunrise whilst swimming in a lake would be one set in itself known as something like 'Yesterday I part of the earth which is not solid and is wet on my skin wettingly I am in it as smell of tree is treeing and bird, birding sound I feel as eyes experience blue sky, blueing, blueing, 'July to August blueing' would be considered as one 'thing'. Maybe we should discuss this in our grade 3 class? Could you help me with a ppt...?" |
Nah, this would just increase the amount of mandatory drug testing for E-2 visa holders. |
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yodanole
Joined: 02 Mar 2003 Location: La Florida
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Of course Korea doesn't have the requisite four seasons necessary to qualify. They don't even have a hockey team. How can they have a hockey season? |
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brier
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.oxfordtutors.com.hk/games.html
I surprised that this book "Game People Play" hasn't been mentioned. Its uploaded at the above sight. While dated some, and a little cheeky in places, it's spot on.
Have fun! |
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The Sultan of Seoul
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 Location: right... behind.. YOU
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| brier wrote: |
http://www.oxfordtutors.com.hk/games.html
I'm surprised that this book "Games People Play" hasn't been mentioned. Its uploaded at the above site. While dated some, and a little cheeky in places, it's spot on.
Have fun! |
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The Cosmic Hum

Joined: 09 May 2003 Location: Sonic Space
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| The Sultan of Seoul wrote: |
| brier wrote: |
http://www.oxfordtutors.com.hk/games.html
I'm surprised that this book "Games People Play" hasn't been mentioned. It's uploaded at the above site. While dated some, and a little cheeky in places, it's spot on.
Have fun! |
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You missed one. 
Last edited by The Cosmic Hum on Fri May 04, 2012 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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