Korean Job Discussion Forums

[baby_b]

Standard apology: I have read other threads but couldn't find a precise answer about this.

A hagwon I have recently signed a contract with wants me to work at its second campus, which is unregistered. I am trying to work out what the risk to me is if I do.

It's a kindy/elementary hagwon. The campus I'm contracted to work at has 6 and 7 year olds and elementary. The second, unregistered campus, which is a 10 minute drive away, has 4 and 5 year olds (Korean age).

The boss/owner considers the schools to be two parts of the same school, but admits she has not registered the other building properly (it's registered as an art hagwon, not a kindergarten English hagwon).

Through reading other threads and Immigration information, I know that working at a second school without permission and at an unregistered hagwon can possibly get me fined and deported. But I want to know whether it makes any difference that the two buildings are functioning as one school (albeit with only one building registered). Does this shift responsibility wholly onto my boss, or do I still share culpability if I work at the unregistered campus? Could I still face deportation? I would be working at an address not listed on my ARC or in my contract, in a building not registered as an English hagwon..

I don't like that the boss has sprung this on me after contracting me, and I don't like that she is evading the law so much. (The other foreign teacher is working on a tourist visa.)

But there are other reasons I would prefer to stay in the job: the boss is quite progressive and wants the kids to be healthy, go outside a lot, learn about nature and world cultures... The boss and other teachers are good people. Also I like the students and don't want to disrupt them by having them change foreign teachers so often.

However I have things ready to switch jobs, so I can just walk away if I choose. If it is a matter of walking away: the boss says it is unfair to the other foreign teacher if only he works at both campuses, and if I can't work at the second campus she needs to replace me.

Any insights?

[greasylake]

If a school is not registered as an English Hagwon it 100% illegal for you to work there as an E2 visa holder.

[amnsg2]

I'm 99% sure kindergartens with foreign teachers are illegal, it has to be a school age hagwon with a few kindergarten classes.

Admittedly, she gets a fine if she gets found out but you could be deported and never get to come back. Most of the risk is on you, for her sole benefit. It sucks that you like your job, but you'll probably get to stay as long as you're firm and polite. I really annoyed my boss last week by refusing private tuition, but if it's illegal we're the ones in trouble. She forgot about it pretty quickly, though.

[ontheway]

It is legal for an E2 teacher to work at multiple locations for the same school with the same owner as long as the primary location is on their ARC. There is no longer any requirement to add such locations to your ARC.

Your problem is that the second location is illegal. Your boss is taking a huge risk running a second location this way and he will get caught eventually. It's likely that, when caught, your boss will bear all of the legal consequences, however, there is a risk for you as well and the only way for you to avoid this risk completely is to change jobs. It's also likely that, when caught, your boss will have to close down one or both operations for some period of time as well as pay very large fines.

You should ask your boss to make the second location legal. It could be that the second location can't pass the physical inspection - rules are more strict than before and even though that location was a hogwan in the past it may no longer qualify without costly renovations and upgrades. Otherwise it would be no problem to register both as English schools.

It's a tough spot your boss has put you in. If the risk seems too great for you, you should quit and move on.

[Troglodyte]

Unless you're being compensated for the extra risk, then don't take it. This guy is doing something illegal and basically asking you to help him out for no reason at all. You don't owe the guy any favors do you? He's not your brother-in-law, right? So why would you take the risk? Even if he isn't caught, this should tell you something about who you're working for --> He doesn't care about the law. So how can you trust him to treat you fairly?

Get another set of documents ready in case you're fired for refusing to work there. I'd also call up the labor board and tell them what's going on. Do it now before you get fired. If he fires you, it's not officially going to be because you didn't work at the second building. He'll make up a reason. If you file the complaint in advance, then it looks better on your part.

By the way, if you do work there and get caught, immi won't kick you out of Korea for life. Even if they do deport you, the ban is only for a couple of years. Still, better to just leave and get a new job on a new visa.

[Son Deureo!]

One thing isn't quite clear to me here: Is this second campus an ENGLISH or FOREIGN LANGUAGE hogwon? Or is it a hogwon that teaches all subjects (including math, science, etc.), what Koreans often call a "bok-seup" or "ip-shi" hogwon?

If it's a language school, AND your boss/E2 visa sponsor owns both, he can farm you out there if he wants to without informing Immigration. This is a fairly recent change, from the past year and a half or so.

If it isn't a language school, then yeah there could be issues with you working there on an E2 regardless of who owns it.

[baby_b]

Thanks for the replies.

Being firm but polite isn't working. The boss is used to hiring illegals so she sees me as easily replaceable. I'm her first E2 and I transferred my visa so she doesn't really understand how time consuming and complicated it is.

The second campus is registered as an art hagwon (for adults, I guess), but is functioning as a kindergarten for 4 and 5 year olds (K-age). The kids learn English but it's not immersive, non-English subjects are taught in Korean.

The boss says the soonest the second campus could be legal is a year from now. I've heard various reasons why she hasn't registered it so far, including that kindergartens are required to take up more land and she can't expand. But I've also heard that she doesn't want to pay taxes on it properly, which sounds straightforward.

This isn't something I'm going to go to the Labor Office about. The boss is a good person and she has helped me out after my previous boss didn't pay me for three months. She's fair and honest with people she deals with, she just doesn't see the law as something she needs to comply with. She and the Korean teachers keep telling me 'It's Korea, nobody follows the law.' I want them to understand that E2 holders need to follow the law more...

If it is true that owners can farm us out to their other schools without getting permission from Immigration, maybe I can consider staying... I wish I had a clear understanding of the legal implications for me. I've tried calling the Immigration English line but they insist on knowing your ARC number. I wish they would provide anonymous counselling.

[Son Deureo!]

I'm not an expert, but it seems pretty damn likely that if she's breaking the law by sending you there, you'd be breaking even more laws by working there. If you can't get Immigration to counsel you anonymously, you might have more luck by contacting the Seoul Global Help Center. They offer counseling on a variety of issues from 9am-6pm Mon.-Fri. at 02-2075-4180. Their web site is http://global.seoul.go.kr/.

Your boss might be risking a fine, but it would probably be less than she's making for sending you there in the first place, so she doesn't really have much to lose. You, on the other hand, could have your visa canceled and get kicked out of the country on top of getting hit with a fine. I can only take you at your word that your boss is basically a decent person, and that she doesn't think the risk of getting caught is very high. It might or might not be, these things are impossible to tell. What's clear is that you're shouldering all the risk as well as going through the hassle of commuting to an additional location, and she's reaping all the reward.

[ontheway]

[Troglodyte]

[TheUrbanMyth]

[baby_b]

Belated thanks for the replies!

I decided to leave at the end of May. They have already found my replacement. It is an attractive position, and the pay is good. But the risks as well as the boss's arrogance in negotiating with me on this issue (thinking that her decree about the fairest way to divide work among the teachers is more important than the law and the legal risks to me) convinced me to leave.

The attraction to stay was basically that this hagwon is genuinely trying to be different from other hagwons and provide kids with a well-rounded, healthy education. (The other foreign teacher calls it 'organic hagwon'). The boss is a bit of a hippy and has a vision for a new kind of hagwon ... but these are reasons she should be cautious about being tripped up by the law, not to ignore it.

Also despite her hippy-ness everything still happens in a very hierarchical way. I think my concerns about the legality of the second campus were seen as impertinent and not my business.

Despite this I still have some regrets ... here we get to take kindy kids outside to the park every day! I won't get that again!

Anyway my take away from this experience is that in job interviews I should:
-ask about secondary location work that might be sprung on me once I'm signed on
-make it clear that I don't do illegal work.

Thanks again for the advice guys.

[luckylady]

[Troglodyte]

[baby_b]

Ok thanks for the tip.

I have been starting to worry a bit about how this looks on my resume ... nine months at my first school (where the boss stopped paying), three months at this school. But I hope I can sweep it all under the rug of 'my first boss was a bad man, please have sympathy'.